Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sir Keir Starmer - Labour Party Leader

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    That can be arranged.

    Have you seen that Labour has binned off all three shortlisted candidates for the Liverpool mayoral election, and started again?

    Comment


      Originally posted by johnr View Post
      Here in Brighton Pavilion - which is seen as both Corbyn- and Lucas-central - a number of Labour folk (including me) wouldn't switch on account of the lies (accompanied by an egregious graph) that Lucas openly told at the start of the 2017 campaign about 'a vote for Labour is effectively a vote for the Tories'. Her supporters finding out where we were canvassing and driving round following us to shout abuse was bound to put a few people off of switching too.
      I guess I must have imagined the time Steve Bassam knocked on my house and harangued my wife for being a Tory-enabling fool because we had a Green poster up in the 2010 election.

      If only Labour would fucking countenance an electoral pact, this shit could be avoided. But they never do, because the fantasy of the socialist majority forbids the recognition of the fucking electoral realities.

      Comment


        Originally posted by TonTon View Post
        That can be arranged. Have you seen that Labour has binned off all three shortlisted candidates for the Liverpool mayoral election, and started again?
        Is this the purging of undesirables and deliberate political manoeuvrings to undemocratically force candidates into positions against the will of the members that the Sensibles spent four years loudly warning us about?

        Comment


          johnr Lucas is so popular electorally in Brighton that it wouldn't be obviously Corbyn Central even were he still in charge. I imagine the test will be for her successor as Green candidate. The Council Leader Phelim McCafferty perhaps?

          Comment


            Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post

            Is this the purging of undesirables and deliberate political manoeuvrings to undemocratically force candidates into positions against the will of the members that the Sensibles spent four years loudly warning us about?
            I kind of assume so, but really don't know enough about Liverpool to be sure. There did seem to be a sort-of half-decent candidate there, maybe banning all three is the best way of avoiding having one of those win the nomination.

            Comment


              Originally posted by NHH View Post

              I guess I must have imagined the time Steve Bassam knocked on my house and harangued my wife for being a Tory-enabling fool because we had a Green poster up in the 2010 election.

              If only Labour would fucking countenance an electoral pact, this shit could be avoided. But they never do, because the fantasy of the socialist majority forbids the recognition of the fucking electoral realities.
              Is there that much mileage in a Labour-Green pact?

              Comment


                Originally posted by NHH View Post
                If only Labour would fucking countenance an electoral pact, this shit could be avoided. But they never do, because the fantasy of the socialist majority forbids the recognition of the fucking electoral realities.
                I thought - and I might be wildly wrong - that Labour did quietly step back a bit in Lucas' seat in 2017 and concentrate work in the constituency down the road. Maybe I am confusing it with Bristol though.

                Rather infamously, the only party that would have taken an electoral pact in 2019 was Labour, but even Lucas got carried away - remember her Cabinet full of women, which mysteriously overlooked any senior Labour woman of colour? I do happily admit that there was a certain element of historical chickens coming home to roost with that but then the people within Labour who are too stupid to countenance an electoral pact are the same people who can't even stand not being able to micromanage their own party, let alone have nothing other than total control of someone elses.

                Comment


                  Snake Plissken yes Labour didn't target Brighton Pav- just like their token efforts across most of the Southern seats outside London.

                  Any deal has to have Labour to stand down in many of these, to give the LibDem or occasionally Green a chance. Without it, long term Tory domination in England is almost inevitable

                  England results 2019

                  Tory+Brexit 49%, 345 seats
                  Labour 34%, 180 seats
                  LibDem +Green 15%, 8 seats
                  Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 23-02-2021, 14:46.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
                    I thought - and I might be wildly wrong - that Labour did quietly step back a bit in Lucas' seat in 2017 and concentrate work in the constituency down the road.
                    Sending people where they might make a difference rather than their wasting their time in a place where the popular incumbent won over 50% of the vote last time is just yer normal targeting though isn't it?

                    Comment


                      A few points to respond to. NHH, Bassam was one of the type of rancid local politicos that I was referring to. Snake, Labour did stand a candidate here in Pavilion in 2017, cos despite Lucas's claims, there was never a chance that the Tories could get in here. However, most local members spent most of their time canvassing in nearby Kemptown, as they did in 2019. DG, part of the (so-called) strategic reason for Labour continuing to stand candidates is/was to keep their vote up until Lucas goes, in the hope/aspiration that McCafferty wouldn't be as popular (especially as memories were still raw as to the previous B&H Green Council and the bin strike iirc). However, I think this all might change, given that the parties have apparently been working reasonably well together on the Council. I think, locally, there might be an agreement.

                      Comment


                        johnr agreed that isn't a 'strategy' from Brighton Labour- it's a local tactic which clearly hasn't worked in Pav.

                        The Strategy needs to be national.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
                          Any deal has to have Labour to stand down in many of these, to give the LibDem or occasionally Green a chance. Without it, long term Tory domination in England is almost inevitable
                          I would agree, but unfortunately, the people in charge of Labour (historically and currently) were far too high on their own supply to countenance working with another Party. (Remember that the people now in charge have deliberately tried to sink their own side twice.)

                          Originally posted by TonTon View Post
                          Sending people where they might make a difference rather than their wasting their time in a place where the popular incumbent won over 50% of the vote last time is just yer normal targeting though isn't it?
                          As I said to Duncan above, previous Labour would deny any such thing happening. In 2017 at least, they were a bit more honest about it.

                          Comment


                            I understand the new choice will be between David Miliband Tony Blair and Kelvin Mackenzie

                            https://twitter.com/liamthorpecho/status/1364214900738957313?s=21

                            Comment


                              Here’s what you could have won

                              had to be stopped at all costs.

                              https://twitter.com/cllrannarothery/status/1363526350305452036?s=21

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
                                As I said to Duncan above, previous Labour would deny any such thing happening. In 2017 at least, they were a bit more honest about it.
                                Sure. I 'd agree there did seem to be a bit of a mood shift.

                                Greens and Labour coming to a limited distancing / standing back arrangement makes some sense to me. The Greens' dealing with the Liberals makes me less likely to vote Green. As it would make me less likely to vote Labour were Labour to do the same. I'm not going to vote Liberal.

                                Comment


                                  Rayners had enough

                                  https://twitter.com/angelarayner/status/1364197918446673924?s=21

                                  Comment


                                    Rothery -a Black woman -threatens to sue

                                    https://twitter.com/cllrannarothery/status/1364251466031108097?s=21

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post

                                      I thought - and I might be wildly wrong - that Labour did quietly step back a bit in Lucas' seat in 2017 and concentrate work in the constituency down the road. Maybe I am confusing it with Bristol though.
                                      I kept hearing this, but then kept seeing lots of Labour canvassers in Pavilion (eg outside my kids' school at home time) where they would variously parrot 'we're giving people a genuine socialist alternative' to 'we need as many Labour seats as possible and can't rely on Lucas to build socialism' and other utterly vapid, disengaged from reality bullshittery that typified a certain type of wild-eyed Corbynite.

                                      Obviously, the Greens also running a candidate in Kemptown was fucking asinine too, and I fell out with a few Greens locally as a result of castigating them for this decision.

                                      Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
                                      Rather infamously, the only party that would have taken an electoral pact in 2019 was Labour, but even Lucas got carried away - remember her Cabinet full of women, which mysteriously overlooked any senior Labour woman of colour? I do happily admit that there was a certain element of historical chickens coming home to roost with that but then the people within Labour who are too stupid to countenance an electoral pact are the same people who can't even stand not being able to micromanage their own party, let alone have nothing other than total control of someone elses.
                                      I couldn't disagree more; the majoritan fantasy that however awful the electoral system, it might just deliver a majority to enable an unfettered Labour government is one of the few things that unites the left and right of the party; John McDonnell was a pretty isolated figure in rejecting this approach (the fact that the left and right fundamentally disagree with what a Labour majority would do with its wonderful majority is neither here nor there).

                                      Comment


                                        Labour was pro-PR in the beginning, obvs.

                                        Comment


                                          Labour graphics and slogans about as good as their democratic processes

                                          Triple Hammer Blow to the Pocket.

                                          https://twitter.com/Bill_Esterson/status/1364259658014351360?s=20

                                          Comment


                                            At the risk of being called a wild eyed (whatever that means) Corbynite, I don't think it was that vapid to claim that one couldn't rely on Lucas/the Greens to build socialism, given that they don't claim to be socialists themselves. Seems fair enough, in an election, just as it was fair to accuse Labour of not being serious enough about climate change.

                                            Anyway, that's done and dusted, and we're on the Starmer thread...he's so much worse than I ever thought he might be...

                                            Comment


                                              Council tax should be raised though, maybe for the majority.

                                              Comment


                                                What's going on in Liverpool is disgraceful. The right wing of the Labour party are brazenly, criminally corrupt. I've seen a lot of centrist contorted attempts to justify Starmer's failing to call for Hancock's resignation (if the Tories won't do it, we shouldn't waste time demanding they do, or something) but silence thus far on this.

                                                Comment


                                                  Lucas does call herself a socialist. The Labour Party isn't ever going to build socialism, based on its own most left-wing manifestos ever.

                                                  Comment


                                                    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1224662165271056385?s=20
                                                    *conditions apply

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X