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Sir Keir Starmer - Labour Party Leader

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    Would you really dump Corbyn to keep Margaret Hodge?

    I would guess Corbyn and his policies delivered a lot more votes to labour than Margaret hodge ever did

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      Starmer has also reneged on Climate Change commitments I think

      https://twitter.com/ivelostlewis/status/1329366541238878208?s=20

      Still will be able to kill all the Climate refugees with our new laser guns- and we won't get tried for war crimes. So its win win

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        https://twitter.com/Lafargue/status/1329514553969766400?s=20

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          https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1329522421393743873?s=20

          even more ridiculousness by Starmer responding to the last thing any one said.

          I once had a boss like that.

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            So stupid

            https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1329558557403082754?s=20

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                https://twitter.com/Mc_Heckin_Duff/status/1329834507147620356?s=20

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                  https://twitter.com/AllyFogg/status/1330471066041544705?s=20

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                    https://twitter.com/Mc_Heckin_Duff/status/1330483919712612367?s=20

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                      I feel like I ought, in nef's enforced absence, to post something about today's NEC shenanigans. But I can't find a half-decent explainer from someone who isn't awful.

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                        Well it would appear that the hard left, having asked for more democracy in party elections, didn't much like the outcome of a, er, democratic election. How odd.

                        I've voted Labour since I was old enough, I was a fervent trade unionist and shop steward a few years ago, but the factionalism in the party has done me in. For a bunch of people who were fond of the phrase 'playing the long game' while St Jeremy was in charge, they sure as hell don't seem intent on doing the same in order to get what they ultimately desire. They keep bleating about challenging Starmer or forming a breakaway party. Honestly, it's like they never left the 6th form.

                        I've joined the Labour Campaign For Electoral Reform and the Electoral Reform Society. This is the long game everyone from the centre right leftwards should be playing.

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                          Originally posted by Fearful Symmetry View Post
                          Well it would appear that the hard left, having asked for more democracy in party elections, didn't much like the outcome of a, er, democratic election. How odd.
                          Just so I'm clear - which democracy, in which election, and what were the outcomes?

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                            Actually - and no snark - I now realise that you were talking about the leadership election, I thought you meant the NEC one.

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                              I was talking about the NEC one.

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                                I don't think it's reasonable to insist that everything is ok with a particular manoeuvre simply because there was a vote involved at some point.

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                                  Originally posted by Fearful Symmetry View Post
                                  I was talking about the NEC one.
                                  Ah, OK. In that case, what do you mean about the left asking for more democracy in an election, and not liking the outcomes?

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                                    They were the ones who clamoured for democratising party processes and open selections. They get their way, lose a vote and walk out in protest.

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                                      But...they didn't get open selections (despite clamouring for it) and the NEC vote was switched to a process that the majority of the left didn't want?

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                                        Originally posted by TonTon View Post
                                        I feel like I ought, in nef's enforced absence, to post something about today's NEC shenanigans. But I can't find a half-decent explainer from someone who isn't awful.
                                        Sorry, have I missed something, why is Nef absent?

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                                          Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post

                                          Sorry, have I missed something, why is Nef absent?
                                          Banned for 24 hours .See pinned bans thread.

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                                            The ban should have elapsed now so maybe he's taking a breather. The other banned member has posted post-ban.

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                                              As an aside, I think Sienna Rodgers is a really good, dispassionate unbiased reporter and commenter on Labour affairs. Absolutely miles better than anyone on a national news outlet.

                                              Yesterday's shenanigans seem to be rooted in the arbitrary ditching of a relatively recently introduced protocol on who assumes that position. I suspect the left walkout was a last straw thing coming on the back of quite a lot of recent heavy-handed bureaucratic manouevres that would have been shrieked about as Stalinist authoritarianism had they happened under Corbyn, such as banning local parties from discussing Corbs's suspension and the way the recently-elected NEC youth rep has been treated. But then Starmer seems determined to chuck the younger vote that was attracted to Labour from 2015-19 under the bus.

                                              Whether I care enough about what happened yesterday to defend the walkout I don't know really. The left needs to look forward now, not back because even though Corbyn's suspension is ridiculous, he's no longer the leader of the party, or of the left of the party. There's too much relying on figureheads.

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                                                Absolutely agree re figureheads. (And rest of post). I always disliked the term "Corbynism", which was used across the spectrum. How was that distinct from "socialism" or even "social democracy", given the actual Labour policies of the 2019 manifesto? Again, a term conceived for people who have difficulty in thinking in the abstract, as opposed to in terms of personalities, when it comes to politics.

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                                                  Associating social democracy with one man made it easier to attack and stop by simply destroying the man.

                                                  (For some reason V’s words to Creedy in V for Vendetta popped into my head.)

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                                                    I said elsewhere at the time Corbyn was elected that the Sensibles shitfit was also about controlling what came after Corbyn. Even then most supporters acknowledged his flaws but figured if he could get someone in place to follow (RLB, Clive Lewis as examples) then the direction of the Party could be properly changed rather than a temporary knocking off the course of heading further Right.

                                                    Of course no one could anticipate that the Sensibles would happily kill the entire Party and work to stop a Labour government to prevent that.

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