Sir Keir Starmer - Labour Party Leader

[Nefertiti2]

Rayners had enough

https://twitter.com/angelarayner/status/1364197918446673924?s=21

[Nefertiti2]

Rothery -a Black woman -threatens to sue

https://twitter.com/cllrannarothery/status/1364251466031108097?s=21

[NHH]

I thought - and I might be wildly wrong - that Labour did quietly step back a bit in Lucas' seat in 2017 and concentrate work in the constituency down the road. Maybe I am confusing it with Bristol though.

I kept hearing this, but then kept seeing lots of Labour canvassers in Pavilion (eg outside my kids' school at home time) where they would variously parrot 'we're giving people a genuine socialist alternative' to 'we need as many Labour seats as possible and can't rely on Lucas to build socialism' and other utterly vapid, disengaged from reality bullshittery that typified a certain type of wild-eyed Corbynite.

Obviously, the Greens also running a candidate in Kemptown was fucking asinine too, and I fell out with a few Greens locally as a result of castigating them for this decision.

Rather infamously, the only party that would have taken an electoral pact in 2019 was Labour, but even Lucas got carried away - remember her Cabinet full of women, which mysteriously overlooked any senior Labour woman of colour? I do happily admit that there was a certain element of historical chickens coming home to roost with that but then the people within Labour who are too stupid to countenance an electoral pact are the same people who can't even stand not being able to micromanage their own party, let alone have nothing other than total control of someone elses.

I couldn't disagree more; the majoritan fantasy that however awful the electoral system, it might just deliver a majority to enable an unfettered Labour government is one of the few things that unites the left and right of the party; John McDonnell was a pretty isolated figure in rejecting this approach (the fact that the left and right fundamentally disagree with what a Labour majority would do with its wonderful majority is neither here nor there).

[TonTon]

Labour was pro-PR in the beginning, obvs.

[Nefertiti2]

Labour graphics and slogans about as good as their democratic processes

Triple Hammer Blow to the Pocket.

https://twitter.com/Bill_Esterson/status/1364259658014351360?s=20

[johnr]

At the risk of being called a wild eyed (whatever that means) Corbynite, I don't think it was that vapid to claim that one couldn't rely on Lucas/the Greens to build socialism, given that they don't claim to be socialists themselves. Seems fair enough, in an election, just as it was fair to accuse Labour of not being serious enough about climate change.

Anyway, that's done and dusted, and we're on the Starmer thread...he's so much worse than I ever thought he might be...

[Lang Spoon]

Council tax should be raised though, maybe for the majority.

[wingco]

What's going on in Liverpool is disgraceful. The right wing of the Labour party are brazenly, criminally corrupt. I've seen a lot of centrist contorted attempts to justify Starmer's failing to call for Hancock's resignation (if the Tories won't do it, we shouldn't waste time demanding they do, or something) but silence thus far on this.

[TonTon]

Lucas does call herself a socialist. The Labour Party isn't ever going to build socialism, based on its own most left-wing manifestos ever.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1224662165271056385?s=20
*conditions apply

[johnr]

Lucas called herself a socialist at a meeting I was at with her and Clive Lewis. Some were surprised as they hadn't heard this before. She was challenged, and then prevaricated. I asked her afterwards, and via social media asked whether the local party whether they agreed/backed her on it (this was when I was running the local Lab media account). Answer came there none, from anywhere. Afaik, the word 'socialism' appears nowhere on her or the Green Party website - one might particularly expect to see it under the 'economy' section, if obe wanted to be called 'socialist'..

I'm not particularly criticising her for this - she might feel that the word is too tainted, and prefers 'progressive'. Fair enough, but it's also fair for someone to therefore question if she would 'advance socialism'.

And I agree with you about the Labour Party, it's just one (diminishing...) potential tool.

[TonTon]

Yeah the Greens don't, as a party, call themselves socialist, for sure. Lucas I've heard describe herself this more than once.

As things stand I'm not sure I'm voting in London in May. More likely to give Sian Berry a vote than anyone else.

[NHH]

Wondering if Lucas would advance socialism in general is a pub debate, but I think if someone is campaigning against Lucas in 2019 on the basis that her election is a decisive factor in whether we get socialism has a different relationship to reality than me.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/solhugheswriter/status/1364247227041001475?s=21

[NHH]

David Evans intervening in selections in the NW is like the scorpion stinging the frog carrying it across the river; it's in his nature. It's how he cut his teeth back in the 1990s.

[Nefertiti2]

Imagine looking at the Labour Party of the last thirty years - and saying David Evans is what you want.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/liamthorpecho/status/1364264897803149317?s=21

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/liamthorpecho/status/1364264913712140290?s=21

[johnr]

Wondering if Lucas would advance socialism in general is a pub debate, but I think if someone is campaigning against Lucas in 2019 on the basis that her election is a decisive factor in whether we get socialism has a different relationship to reality than me.

I don't believe anyone mentioned that it might be 'decisive', but then I'm not sure that the 'wild-eyed' bit earlier - whether they were 'parroting' or not - might properly describe whoever might have been outside the school gate.

[Nefertiti2]

Looks as though the right are happy to stand against greens to let the Tories in

https://twitter.com/grahambsi/status/1364485185924923393?s=21

but see also Molly who ensured the corrupt Tory was able to cash in on PPE in Stroud

[TonTon]

Everyone should campaign against Akehurst in that seat.

[Snake Plissken]

I must be in a reasonable mood - I saw one of his tweets, typed a response and deleted it without sending.

(It was a response to "I've been a member of Labour's campaigns for electoral reform since 1990!"

"Well, considering you've been at it for 30 years and achieved fuck all, maybe you should consider stepping down and letting someone else have a go.")

[NHH]

I don't believe anyone mentioned that it might be 'decisive', but then I'm not sure that the 'wild-eyed' bit earlier - whether they were 'parroting' or not - might properly describe whoever might have been outside the school gate.

Well, as someone at the said school gate, I can only report what justification they gave me when I asked them why on earth they were bothering.

[TonTon]

(It was a response to "I've been a member of Labour's campaigns for electoral reform since 1990!"

This is the problem with campaigns for electoral reform. This and the very silly slogans and arguments that are often used. I'm in favour of PR, but the campaigners for it put me off.

[johnr]

Well, as someone at the said school gate, I can only report what justification they gave me when I asked them why on earth they were bothering.

I guess I bristle slightly at the 'wild-eyed' description, cos its the sort of thing that was flung at Labour/Corbyn supporters right from the start, mainly in the media but often by right wingers in and outside the Labour Party. Thugs, people who throw bricks through windows, intimidate and gang up on opponents...it was a process of othering that only had parallels with early Green activism.

I also knew many of the canvassers, having met them at numerous party meetings. I can't remember any who I would remotely describe as 'wild-eyed'. They all seemed pretty mild-mannered to me, but maybe they were different during the campaign.