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Sir Keir Starmer - Labour Party Leader

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    I don't particularly wish to defend Lisa Nandy, but what's so stupid about that comment, politics-wise?

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      Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss View Post
      I don't particularly wish to defend Lisa Nandy, but what's so stupid about that comment, politics-wise?
      Well the fact that she hadn't noticed it at any point in the previous 10 years.

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        She doesn't say she hasn't noticed it; she's saying she's noticed her constituents noticing it, which is a) a different thing and quite probably b) a new thing.

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          She has spoken to her constituents for the first time in ten years.

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            I'm sure lots of constituents have been telling her that, but in my experience (from visiting my home town and chatting with family members, seeing FB posts etc) lots of places simply didn't get the idea that austerity was a political choice and that they were being totally fucked over by the government. That wasn't just the case for the places with crappy MPs, but because the narrative got shaped by the Tories when no-one was around at Labour HQ to rebut it, because it sounded like defensive excuses from Labour, but mostly because most people don't understand macroeconomic counter-cyclical spending and never have and when compared to what they would do in the personal circumstances it sounds utterly counter-intuitive. Add in a large dose of racism in scapegoating migrant communities as the cause of whatever shortage they did become aware of (promoted by scum media) and you have a clusterfuck.

            It's one of the reason Labour's messaging failed; getting the anti-austerity movement to see you as a salvation is great, and having decent policies at last is fantastic but it does little to move people who don't perceive themselves to be on the receiving end of austerity.

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              Just completed a Yougov survey that asked, among other things, to describe Keir Starmer in a single word. Thanks to this thread, "forensic" was the only choice.

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                So, Rosie Duffield is a TERF, then.

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                  Forensic

                  https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1315709459210080257?s=21

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                    Originally posted by johnr View Post

                    We may have cross-posted. It's not A Thing That Must Be at all.
                    It's certainly not ' a Thing That Must Be' now, when Starmer has said that Labour shouldn't vote against the bill, whether or not any amendments are successful.

                    https://twitter.com/siennamarla/stat...09459210080257

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                      Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
                      So, Rosie Duffield is a TERF, then.
                      She's appalling. She's not alone, mind.

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                        Keir nice to see you've finally mentioned Serco- maybe it was even worth waiting so everyone got exasperated.

                        but this is really not a good choice to "revamp the party"

                        https://twitter.com/simonk_133/status/1316459964496478209?s=20

                        Also spycops

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                          Far to the right of Lisa effing Nandy

                          https://twitter.com/nita_clarke/status/1213064972848242688?s=20

                          Terf too, of course

                          and Emily benn's mum

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                            Who or what is a "nita clarke"?

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                              She is the former Blairite transphobe brought in to make Sir Keith more electable

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                                Respect to Dan Carden for resigning over the MI5 bill. Starmer is bloody awful on this. Just to be clear, Lib Dems oppose the bill. Starmer seems to be shifting Labour policy to the right of LD policy on a few issues now.

                                Edit: Carden also made a great Commons speech this week about the Government's disastrous incompetence and corruption on outsourced management of COVID issues. Labour needs more like him.
                                Last edited by Evariste Euler Gauss; 15-10-2020, 11:43.

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                                  Agreed. It's really odd that Starmer, who in his election material emphasised the cases he had won as a Civil Rights lawyer, has tried to pretend that he's a sensible Daily Express reader who knows that rights has gone too far. The tories are going to attack him anyway.

                                  Carden who has Evariste Euler Gauss has pointed out has made a couple of very good interventions recently was the left Corbynite candidate. it's worth remembering what the centrists repeatedly said about Corbynite's commitment to Human rights. and compare it with Starmer

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                                    I don't think this legislation feels like one in which the Tory press are sharpening their pens to call him out for being a soft-on-terror typical leftie. It's too arcane, and hasn't got much traction in the world outside Westminster. That leads me to conclude he's using these opportunities to cull the frontbench of the left by forcing them to resign on the grounds of good conscience.


                                    Every concession Labour force Shadow Ministers of principle to swallow either detaches them slowly but surely from the extra-parliamentary left and/or the values and principles they and that extra-parliamentary left espouse. At the end, you either have severe questions to answer posed by your conscience or your constituency, so many choose to walk the plank. Those that don't will face some twitter spats and be on the wrong-end of a pile on or two, at which point, some helpful centrist puts their arm around them and says 'why not come for a drink, and we can chat about how much we fucking hate thems outside these gothic halls and how much they don't understand us and our predicament, and slowly your journey to the dark side is complete.

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                                      Indeed. The thing about stuff like the Spycops and Overseas Ops bills is that they aren't really attracting any interest anywhere apart from on the engaged left and among the (previous or potential) victims of such abuses. Starmer's made it more of a fractious issues by his deep and passionate abstention principle.

                                      It should never be forgotten just how illiberal the Labour right is, and that that illiberalism is a badge of honour. It's been tempting to paint, say, Blairism as defined by its economic aspects (relaxed about privatisation and anti-union legislation), but it's authoritarian gestures that really float its boat.

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                                        WIth this, Nita Clarke and Ruth Smeeth at the conference, I keep asking myself "Who the hell is Starmer trapped by?" Someone at the top of the Labour Party is doing this and although I'm no fan of Starmer, surely he has to be smart enough to see what this looks like.

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                                          There is someone at the top of the Labour party doing this. He's called Starmer. Don't fall for this 'he's being badly advised'. Every cunt in history has used this as an excuse. 'If only he knew! If only we could get through to him without those damned advisors getting in the way and dripping poison into him'.

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                                            Funnily enough, that was the same narrative spun about Corbyn (sometimes by left and right) - that his advisers were leading the delicate leader astray

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                                              I tell you what, recent events have made me think that if anyone from the "right"/moderate wing of the Labour party had to recapture the leadership, why couldn't it have been Burnham. Sure he'd have been opportunistic and politically unreliable too, but you'd have more of an idea of what he was actually about, and about his capability to do the job.

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                                                The gang he's brought back -or tried to- seem poisonous incompetents. They aren't just right-wing and unpleasant warmongers and racists, they seem singularly bad at politics

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                                                  They are. A decade's worth of losing on their CVs. And yes, some deeply unpleasant people

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                                                    Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
                                                    Funnily enough, that was the same narrative spun about Corbyn (sometimes by left and right) - that his advisers were leading the delicate leader astray
                                                    There is one main difference though - the Sensibles are the kings of projection. Their complaints about Corbyn, purges, thuggery and abuse towards opponents were precisely what they would do - and are doing - in that situation.

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