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Sir Keir Starmer - Labour Party Leader

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    #76
    because we're going to need to build a new world, and we going to need all the ideas we can find.

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      #77
      Originally posted by jeanmid View Post

      Why should I tell you my policies? Unlike some on here I don't sit there and pretend I know all the answers.
      You don’t have to know the answers but knowing the questions are nice if you want to be more than a vacuous hive of reaction.

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        #78
        Originally posted by ad hoc View Post

        Magic Granddad is about patronisingly abusing this large swathe of optimistic young people who were encouraged to become politically active because of what the Labour Party stood for. This kind of sneering bollocks is exactly why centrists come across as such wankers.
        Exactly, the number of young people inspired by Corbyn (looking at the share of vote by demographic) is not to be sneered at.

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          #79
          Labour didn’t call the election. They were left without a choice when the Lib Dem’s and SNP said that they would support the Tories motion.

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            #80
            Originally posted by jeanmid View Post

            Yeah but Labour still lost that election and instead of treating it as a narrow defeat Corbyn his inncer circle and his outriders treated it as a glorious triumph and simply thought one more heave would do it. Then they stupidly voted for an election when there wasn;t the need for one and the result was a total disaster.
            Did you read the article? It mentions exactly that, and as it's written by somebody who was on the 'inside' throughout, I think that it's quite insightful. What do you think?

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              #81
              Originally posted by ad hoc View Post

              "Magic granddad" is not a problem because it is about Corbyn. If people want to have a pop at Corbyn that's up to them. Magic Granddad is about patronisingly abusing this large swathe of optimistic young people who were encouraged to become politically active because of what the Labour Party stood for. This kind of sneering bollocks is exactly why centrists come across as such wankers.
              Magic Wankers, please.

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                #82
                Originally posted by johnr View Post

                Did you read the article? It mentions exactly that, and as it's written by somebody who was on the 'inside' throughout, I think that it's quite insightful. What do you think?
                Yes I have and it blames Brexit. There's no mention of Corbyn's failures or his unpopularity with voters.

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                  #83
                  What do the shadow cabinet do, exactly? I picture them just kind of quietly lurking behind the members of the official cabinet and following them around Westminster. Occasionally offering passive-aggressive comments.

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                    #84
                    (To jeanmid) My takeaway from it was that he failed to have a coherent position on Brexit, and that was a major reason why people didn't vote Labour. It does explain a lot of the dropoff in his popularity from 17-19. What other factors do you think there were?

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                      #85
                      Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                      What do the shadow cabinet do, exactly? I picture them just kind of quietly lurking behind the members of the official cabinet and following them around Westminster. Occasionally offering passive-aggressive comments.
                      If only

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                        #86
                        Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                        What do the shadow cabinet do, exactly? I picture them just kind of quietly lurking behind the members of the official cabinet and following them around Westminster. Occasionally offering passive-aggressive comments.
                        The shadow cabinet has no power to do anything, and their influence only goes as far as how willing the press is to report on their snarky responses to government policy. They're constituency MPs who occasionally get wheeled out to say 'that's not how we'd do it', until all of sudden an election is called and they have to market in-depth policy proposals.

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                          #87
                          They should name Lamont Cranston to a post, just so older people can enjoy an obscure reference.

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                            #88
                            Originally posted by johnr View Post
                            (To jeanmid) My takeaway from it was that he failed to have a coherent position on Brexit, and that was a major reason why people didn't vote Labour. It does explain a lot of the dropoff in his popularity from 17-19. What other factors do you think there were?
                            The big drop in Corbyn's popularity in the polls was after the Skripal response, and it never turned around.

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                              #89
                              Originally posted by Lucy Waterman View Post

                              The big drop in Corbyn's popularity in the polls was after the Skripal response, and it never turned around.
                              That's a fair point. It was an odd situation, that, iirc he wouldn't say it was the Russians until he saw some proper evidence, which I remember thinking seemed reasonable, but you're right that lots didn't see it like that.

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                                #90
                                He asked whether May would send samples to Russia for analysis - that was the bit that didn't seem to play well.

                                “How has she responded to the Russian government’s request for a sample of the agent used in the Salisbury attack, to run its own tests?” was the quote. I don't cite it with an intent to relitigate it, it's all over and done with really.

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                                  #91
                                  Indeed.

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                                    #92
                                    Could be a drip drip effect of the Czech spy story and his refusal to nuke Iran building up to it too. I didn't realise his popularity dropped around Skripal so that's interesting.

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                                      #93
                                      Foreign policy was framed by his opponents in a way that made him seem to be a throwback to 80s unilateralism and perceived pro-Soviet sympathies*, but also I think his being perceived as not trying hard enough to prevent Brexit was a time bomb from 2016 that only detonated in 2018-19, combined with the civil war in the party over alleged antisemitism. In addition, there was a belief that the LibDems were a viable alternative/tactical vote, which proved to be illusory.

                                      *I'm not sure why this wasn't fatal to his career in 2017 given how much the tabloids invested in it.
                                      Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 07-04-2020, 05:31.

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                                        #94
                                        Russia never came up on the doorstep once in my anecdotal experience of people saying why they didn't want to vote for him. Brexit did, as did "you'll bankrupt the country", as, a little, did antisemitism, but not sure it was a big enough issue, even if Corbyn's response wasn't that convincing.

                                        Anyway, re "Magic Grandpa", I don't dislike it because it's an insult to Corbyn - he's big enough and ugly enough etc to take that on the chin - it's more its witlessness and what it reveals about the person throwing the insult, and, as others have said, its sneering disdain for Labour's younger supporters. If only women under 40 had voted in the 2019 election, there'd have been a Labour landslide. The fact that it's a favoured insult of the middle-aged white-male centrist music journalist 90s nostalgist massive is very telling.

                                        Anyway, the shadow cabinet - I'm fairly relaxed about it. Good things are RLB staying on the frontbench in an important brief she'll be sound on, Lammy will be good at Justice and Jo Stevens is a very good fit at DCMS (knows her cricket too). Also good is the refusal to give posts to the media-luvvy gobshite foghorn right (Phillips, Streeting, Creasy et al). Less positive is the awful Steve Reed getting Local Government and Communities (bang goes the insourcing agenda?) and the equally awful Iain Murray getting Scotland, a move that should ensure he remains Labour's only Scottish MP for the foreseeable.

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                                          #95
                                          The "magic grandpa" thing is pretty pathetic, agreed. And I'm no fan of Corbyn.

                                          There's a difference between what changes people's minds and what people think changes their minds. Or at least, they aren't necessarily the same thing. Ideas and opinions and motivations are complicated things.

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                                            #96
                                            Good to hear the new Sport shadow is sound on cricket

                                            I see Louise Haig h at NI is interim only?

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                                              #97
                                              Magic grandpa is like centrist dad but aimed at another Labour demographic. Witless abuse all round.

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                                                #98
                                                What are the other ones for Centrists? “Melts”? “Slugs”? It’s Oscar Wilde wherever you look.

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                                                  #99
                                                  Sensibles.

                                                  Maomentum Thugs.

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                                                    I liked being a Sensible, that was barely an insult. I quite liked being a centrist dad tbh.

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