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    I did note that, but wondered if there was a more objective data set available.

    As you probably know, certain of the Haredi communities here (particularly Hasidim in Brooklyn) have significant political power on the local level given their willingness to vote en bloc (and long tradition of doing so). That can't work in England given the very different way in which local government works, whereas in NYC a few thousand votes can be outcome determinative in City Council, State Assembly and even State Senate elections.

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      I think that has certainly had an effect on Hackney Borough Council

      cycle lanes

      Shabbat-friendly lifts

      and a rabbi who was also a Labour Councillor

      lots of issues about schooling too- including whether there was national curriculum teaching on LBGT and science


      And claims of antisemitism by the Charedi - who aren't included in the Board of Deputies, despite being the largest single Jewish group in the UK

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        Ah, thanks for that.

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          I lived for 20 years next to the Haredi community at Stamford Hill. They're mostly Lib Dem or Tory. (I canvassed there occasionally, and my Branch was Hackney Downs. We had quite a few secular or non-Orthodox Jewish members, but no Orthodox members ever came to meetings that I saw.)

          There are some frictions with the rest of the community, mostly due to planning. This is a fairly neutral source.

          https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...y-8738955.html

          Just to add / clarify: it is a disappointment to the local Labour Party that despite the Council making efforts such as those cited by Nefertiti, the C/Haredi community tend to favour the Conservatives and to perceive Labour as out to regulate them. In the case of planning, the Council has to regulate regardless of reasons behind the house extensions, otherwise there would be a developing free for all. “Precedent” is important in planning, if they allow extensions to one house then it’s hard to refuse them for another, whose owner may just be a hard-nosed developer. There are other things that bring the community into opposition with laws and conflict with neighbours; traffic and parking, schools (there are informal schools and synagogues in houses, which don’t teach primary school curricula). So the Council has to deal with that, and with accusations of special treatment.
          Since the smears, we’ve probably lost all hope of getting their votes.

          And one more edit - we don’t “need” their votes, Diane has a massive majority. It’s just frustrating that if we’d managed to decisively win their backing it would have been better all round; they wouldn’t be susceptible to scare stories, and there would be more dialogue. Who knows, that ship has sailed.
          Last edited by MsD; 01-07-2020, 11:13.

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            Corbyn couldn't have won in 1997; the left was a defined presence then, for sure, but in the wider world still shattered and battered and the circumstances of the time wouldn't have given Corbyn the platform or wider audience for his message that he had in 2015 and 2017. Brown would've won easily though, as would Smith.

            Smith was kind of the person I hoped Starmer would be, if we had to have a more right-leaning leader - lawyerly, likeable, reliable, consistent - but as Lang and Nef have said, he seems to have thrown his lot in with the kind of poisonous bastards that started losing us Scotland and northern England in the first place

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              Back, briefly, to the Peake/RLB story. This, I think, is excellent and ought to be read and shared widely
              The UK media has been debating whether it is anti-Semitic to draw any links between US state violence against African-Americans and Israeli state violence against us. As a Palestinian, I apparently have no voice in any of this – no one has come to ask me why we consider Israel an Apartheid state. As it happens, I am tired of trying to prove my own suffering to the white man so that I can earn a measure of his empathy.
              This is all a power game, the aim is to turn us – the oppressed and the people who defend them, into the guilty. Maxine the anti-racist actor is now the ‘anti-Semite’, the Palestinians under violent occupation for decades are the ‘terrorists’. It’s the narrative of the strong and paranoid. It’s another parallel with the US, where those in power decry the protesters as violent and wrong, rather than the police shooting at them.
              https://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/lets...e-exact-angle/

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                Thanks for sharing ad hoc. Needs a wider audience

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                  I used to live near Stanford Hill and thought that they were Hassidic Jews. Are the Haredi a different group?

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                    Who are the two UK celebrities he's talking about?

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                      Baddiel is prob one.

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                        Bored, Haredi is the currently preferred term for those often called "ultra Orthodox" in secular Anglo discourse. The Hasidim are Haredi, but not all Haredim are Hasidim.

                        Haredi Judaism is not an institutionally cohesive or homogeneous group, but comprises a diversity of spiritual and cultural orientations, generally divided into a broad range of Hasidic sects, Litvishe-Yeshivish streams from Eastern Europe, and Oriental Sephardic Haredi Jews. These groups often differ significantly from one another in their specific ideologies and lifestyles, as well as the degree of stringency in religious practice, rigidity of religious philosophy, and isolation from the general culture that they maintain.
                        I don't know Stamford Hill as well as others here, but believe that most of the Haredi there are in fact Hasidim (as are the vast majority of the Haredi in New York).

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                          Both Baddiel and Matt Lucas did blackface.

                          Baddiel has still not apologised to Jason Lee


                          Matt Lucas said he was very sorry- after Little Britain was pulled from Netflix

                          David and I have both spoken publicly in recent years of our regret that we played characters of other races. Once again we want to make it clear that it was wrong and we are very sorry.

                          Both have criticised Black Lives Matter for mentioning Palestinan Right


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                            When I lived in Stoke Newington they were usually called Hassids or Hassidic Jews but there's definitely been a switch to Haredi/Charedi recently

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                              Yes, seeing it more as Charedi with the C lately but Haredi is acceptable.

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                                Originally posted by MsD View Post
                                Yes, seeing it more as Charedi with the C lately but Haredi is acceptable.
                                Transliteration questions?

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                                  Presumably so. I'd imagine the same one that renders the November/December holiday as Chanukah or Hanukah (or indeed Hanukkah)

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                                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                    Presumably so. I'd imagine the same one that renders the November/December holiday as Chanukah or Hanukah (or indeed Hanukkah)
                                    Sixteen ways to spell Hanukkah


                                    For the record:

                                    Hanukkah : 8,470,000 hits.
                                    Chanukah : 3,390,000 hits.
                                    Hanukah : 862,000 hits.
                                    Hannukah : 677,000 hits.
                                    Chanuka : 335,000 hits.
                                    Chanukkah : 274,000 hits.
                                    Hanuka : 192,000 hits.
                                    Channukah : 128,000 hits.
                                    Chanukka : 116,000 hits.*
                                    Hanukka : 86,300 hits.
                                    Hannuka : 51,400 hits.
                                    Hannukkah : 37,300 hits.
                                    Channuka : 33,600 hits.
                                    Xanuka : 992 hits.
                                    Hannukka : 686 hits.
                                    Channukkah : 508 hits.
                                    Channukka : 489 hits.*
                                    Chanuqa : 25 hits.


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                                      The difference between Sephardic and Ashkenazic pronunciation also plays a role in the different transliteration

                                      There is a discussion here

                                      https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-...ad-of-using-Ch

                                      and a table of different systems in the Wiki (the letter in question being chet)

                                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Hebrew

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                                        The X sound in Russian has a similar sound or range of sounds. Ch as in “loch”, but some people pronounce it as a hard H.

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                                          Did we do a thread on TV about Unorthodox BTW?

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                                            It's appeared on current watching a few times.

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                                              The X sound in Russian has a similar sound or range of sounds. Ch as in “loch”, but some people pronounce it as a hard H.
                                              Assuming that the discussion relates to the opening consonant in Hannukah and that the Russian sound written X in Cyrillic is one of the correct pronunciations of that opening sound, it's curious that, with 16 different spellings per the above list, not one of those 16 uses the standard Anglophone transliteration of the Cyrillic X, i.e "kh".

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                                                Meanwhile Keir’s so normal, and Laura loves it

                                                https://twitter.com/tom_gann/status/1279027500933353472?s=21

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                                                  A spare prick at a wedding. The continued electoral defeat will be forensic no doubt.

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                                                    My MacBook got stuck on that haircutandapint clip in a loop, aaaaaaargh.

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