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Sir Keir Starmer - Labour Party Leader

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    I'm sure Mr. Starmer will be coming down hard on these Labour officials promoting bigotry.

    https://twitter.com/Labour_Trans/status/1275693399610396674

    Toby Perkins is still in the shadow cabinet.

    https://twitter.com/LabourGRT/status/1276164283404038145

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      wingco's post all but had me in tears.

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        It's not that complicated. Accurate criticism of the actions of the state of Israel is appropriate and relatively easy. There's so much shit that they are up to that it's difficult to keep track. just keep focusing on the well documented suppression of human rights, you just have to be extremely careful. Accurate Criticism of the murderous treatment of black people by the US police is a good thing, and relatively easy to pull off. Again There's so much shit that they are up to that it's difficult to keep track. Saying that the israeli's taught the Minnesota police force how to kneel on people's necks, if that isn't true is dodgy as fucking fuck. Somebody somewhere has decided to overegg the George Floyd murder Pudding by getting the israelis involved somewhere along the line. You've somehow moved from legitimate criticism of the actions of the israeli armed forces, to using them as a bogeyman, or an adjective that things get fucking tricky. I have no reason to think that that RLB did anything other than take what was said in that interview at face value, and retweeted it like people retweet this sort of thing all the time. But if you're going to be in the business of calling out the Israeli govt you've got to be so careful, and so disciplined, and that may not be enough. Mark Regev is a thing. We had him here, before he went to london.

        The first labour politician to fuck up with this sort of thing was always going to get thrown in the wood pulper. Unfortunately for Rebecca long-Bailey, it was her. It would have been massively easier for starmer if this hadn't happened. in that this is not helpful if you're trying to patch the party back together. It doesn't really matter how unfair you think the whole controversy, or whether or not you trust the bona fides of many of the people making the complaints. It's a problem that needs to shut down, while enabling people to make criticism of the behaviour of the israeli Defence forces and Govt. This nonsense needs to be sorted out as quickly as possible. The next election is a long way away, but best to try and kill it as quickly as possible, So you can move on.
        Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 26-06-2020, 22:50.

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          Originally posted by Gangster Octopus View Post
          wingco's post all but had me in tears.
          I want to post it everywhere. I won't, but it says everything.

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            Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
            But if you're going to be in the business of calling out the Israeli govt you've got to be so careful, and so disciplined, and that may not be enough. Mark Regev is a thing. We had him here, before he went to london.
            [TAB translated]"because the Israelis will liie and distort what you say so you never say anything"

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              I was tempted to leave this week, and I don't blame anyone who has. What keeps me in is the knowledge that so many people think and feel the same way at the grass roots. I am nowhere near as active as I was when I was young and energetic, but going to the odd branch meeting has soothed my soul enough, so far. Of course, I've just moved, so it depends what my local branch is like, and with my work patterns I'm not sure I'll go to many meetings, but I'd like to. Hopefully they won't all be raving centrists.
              This place has helped, also Facebook, and Twitter to a lesser extent.

              Comment


                Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post

                The first labour politician to fuck up with this sort of thing was always going to get thrown in the wood pulper. Unfortunately for Rebecca long-Bailey, it was her.
                You make some fair points, but just to be clear about the context of RLB's sacking. There's a Labour politician who recently eulogised an anti-semite and Nazi sympathiser. She was promoted to the Shadow Cabinet, and remains there. Starmer's principles don't stretch as far as the centre right of the party.

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                  Originally posted by johnr View Post

                  You make some fair points, but just to be clear about the context of RLB's sacking. There's a Labour politician who recently eulogised an anti-semite and Nazi sympathiser. She was promoted to the Shadow Cabinet, and remains there. Starmer's principles don't stretch as far as the centre right of the party.
                  Which politician was that? I can't keep up

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                    Rachel Reeves.

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                      It was Rachel Reeves who posted a long thread in praise of Nancy Astor, the first woman MP to take her seat


                      Astor was an antisemite who went on to support Hitler

                      Reeves is not progressive on a number of issues.

                      https://twitter.com/simonk_133/status/1276629661355855874?s=20

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by johnr View Post
                        I've asked Labour MPs and local Councillors who have agreed with RLB being sacked, such as Stella Creasy; I've asked commentators such as Rafael Behr, and press and media folk who are closely covering the story; I've asked people on BTL comment threads - 'why has Rachel Reeves' eulogising of Nancy Astor without even mentioning her antisemitism and Nazi-sympathising not seen as worthy of censure by Starmer?'. And it's a bit weird - not one of them has even bothered responding, even though they often respond to other points/questions.
                        For what it's worth, I've kept on asking the same question of various folk. Still no reply from anybody.

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                          You could argue historical figures get something of a free pass (Keir Hardie was a pretty vile racist, but is still eulogised by the labour left (and a portion of Scots Nats)). Not saying it's right.

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                            It's an extremely pertinent question. Thanks again folks re post and to you MsD for your discretion re sharing. It was just for here.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                              You could argue historical figures get something of a free pass (
                              You could. I just wish one of them would.

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                                Yeah, but then for the most rabid Sensibles it was never about anti-semitism.

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                                  yes, and that's why it's so upsetting for Jews on the left, to be used by the right as an instrument by a group who performatively drop their smelling salts because of the stench of antisemitism whilst having no problems with actual antisemites.

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                                    Nef, that Matt Z-C tweet - where is the Labour Party saying
                                    These were messages exchanged between co-workers in the expectation that they‘d remain private & confidential & the tone of the language used reflects that.” They added it was “po-faced” to characterise the messages as “infantile”
                                    ? I can't see it in the linked article, and I can't see any more context from looking at the twitter thread.

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                                      The quote is in this article, TT
                                      https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/sta...307188741?s=19

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                                        It's in the Open Democracy article about a quarter of the way down:
                                        Contacted for this article, the Labour Party said: “These were messages exchanged between co-workers in the expectation that they would remain private and confidential and the tone of the language used reflects that.” The party added that it was “po-faced” to characterise the messages as “infantile”.
                                        in the Ferociously Hostile section.

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                                          Thanks Nef and John for your replies

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                                            It's rare to see the term 'po-faced' get an outing in real life, rather than the works of Enid Blyton.

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                                              https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1276837563261739008?s=21

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                                                Starmer's a gunfucker too.

                                                https://twitter.com/JohnHealey_MP/status/1276789636539584515

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                                                  the Manifesto had some very good politics for soldiers.

                                                  this is about getting the "patriotic" [white] vote back.


                                                  The trouble with Starmer's politics is it is moribund and chasing dying votes. He's never going to outflank Johnson and co on the right- but there's adanger that a populist Tory party can outflank Rachel Reeves and co on the left whenever they choose,

                                                  Labour policies were very popular. It was the leader that wasn't.


                                                  Sadly Starmer and his loser advisers- have milquetoast policies for dramatic times.


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                                                    https://novaramedia.com/2020/06/26/l...sly-redefined/

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