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So, Kiev then...or possibly Las Vegas

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    So, Kiev then...or possibly Las Vegas

    I have enough airmiles to go and return to either for free...I'm thinking the end of this month. But I don't want to spend more than 3 or 4 nights in either place. I have 7 days holiday left...Can the OTF hive mind please help me to decide. I'm drawn to Vegas (simply because it's free travel, though it's likely to be expensive when I get there).

    #2
    They are rather different . . .

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      #3
      I'm aware of that - the point being that I wouldn't necessarily go to Vegas otherwise

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        #4
        Unless things have changed a lot since I was there you should be able to eat relatively cheaply in Vegas.

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          #5
          I spent a couple of days in Kiev last year. There's more than enough to see there to make it a memorable trip.

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            #6
            You can spend a fortune or not very much in Vegas. I love the place, but it's a bit of a specific (maybe even acquired?) taste. You definitely don't want to spend more than 4 days in Vegas itself, and even if you do spend 4 days, you'll probably want to go and enjoy some of the stunning desert scenery for a day just to escape the lights and noise.

            It's a great city to fly to from the UK because it's utterly fucked up, and because stuff is happening 24/7. Jetlag makes much less sense when you can get breakfast at 3 in the morning while watching the celebrating winners or haggard loses from the night before getting their final meal of the day, and when there's so much light all the time.

            I know nothing about Kiev.

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              #7
              I always immediately wonder "why Vegas?" and then remember what you really need to do is get out to the Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam and stuff. Then it makes a lot of sense. i.e. Going to Vegas as a convenient airport for not going to Vegas.

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                #8
                Yes. Bear in mind that there are a lot of people - like Caja - who can't stand Vegas. I love it for what it is - and absolutely adore waking up in the ugly tower of some casino hotel and watching the glow of the sun rise on the distant desert mountains across the comedy weirdness of the strip. I love the contrast. But it's even better because of the Hoover Dam and Lake Mead and Valley of Fire and Red Rock Canyon stuff that's all within pretty easy reach.

                The Grand Canyon is a bit of a slog - and at the end of this month you probably wouldn't be able to get to the North Rim: the access roads are often closed until May.

                Edit: actually, if you have a car, Zion National Park is much easier access and Bryce Canyon slightly easier access from Vegas than the Grand Canyon, and both are utterly spectacular.
                Last edited by San Bernardhinault; 25-02-2020, 21:38.

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                  #9
                  Aye, hated Vegas, Hoover Dam and Grand Canyon are ace. Flagstaff was great as well.

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                    #10
                    I am also in the "one of the worst places in the country" camp, but love and respect people who enjoy Vegas (not only SB).

                    I was in Kyiv for work, but enjoyed it nonetheless.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                      Yes. Bear in mind that there are a lot of people - like Caja - who can't stand Vegas. I love it for what it is - and absolutely adore waking up in the ugly tower of some casino hotel and watching the glow of the sun rise on the distant desert mountains across the comedy weirdness of the strip. I love the contrast. But it's even better because of the Hoover Dam and Lake Mead and Valley of Fire and Red Rock Canyon stuff that's all within pretty easy reach.

                      The Grand Canyon is a bit of a slog - and at the end of this month you probably wouldn't be able to get to the North Rim: the access roads are often closed until May.

                      Edit: actually, if you have a car, Zion National Park is much easier access and Bryce Canyon slightly easier access from Vegas than the Grand Canyon, and both are utterly spectacular.
                      Pretty much every word of this, and we were there just this past November. Red Rock Canyon was stunning. Death Valley is amazing. Grand Canyon is indeed a slog, but it was worth it. Hoover Dam of course. Try to get tickets to one absurd show, like Gaga or Aerosmith or something.

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                        #12
                        Also, we didn't do any gambly stuff or walk the strip. It's just not our thing.

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                          #13
                          How about Austin?

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                            #14
                            ms.ursus was a few months ago and loved it

                            Less convenient flightwise,.though

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                              Edit: actually, if you have a car, Zion National Park is much easier access and Bryce Canyon slightly easier access from Vegas than the Grand Canyon, and both are utterly spectacular.
                              This is a very good point. Around 2 1/2 hours from Vegas to Zion. At the end of March it could be getting even busier than usual, though, so if you are thinking about that you may want to start looking for a hotel in Springdale soon.

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                                #16
                                I've been to Austin a couple of times. I like it. But I think it's overrated because people compare it to the cultural and political and geographical wasteland that surrounds it. Also, like Portland, it's a little too (artificially) smug about its weirdness. Its "weirdness" seems to be mostly about being white people with piercings who go to live music.

                                That said, it is fun, it is vibey, and it's pretty charming.

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                  ms.ursus was a few months ago and loved it

                                  Less convenient flightwise,.though
                                  Direct flights from Heathrow. (Which was why I mentioned it)

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                                    #18
                                    I had no idea.

                                    Definitely worthy of consideration, then. For one thing, a car is not as essential (assuming one wants to leave the Strip)

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                                      #19
                                      I was talking to some acquaintances recently who are about to fly to New Zealand to visit their daughter. They have decided that they can't justify flying any longer so this will probably be the last time they will see her. I tried to persuade them that absent major policy changes, we're fucked anyway so they shouldn't miss out on major life experience while they can. But I can't really get over the disconnect between a board with a decent awareness of environmental issues and a discussion about which long haul flight to take on a whim.

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                                        #20
                                        I would like to put something on the record. I actually quite like Vegas, but simply for periods of less than 36 hours. The idea of 4 days without means to escape is misery to me, but I appreciate the gaudy absurdity that is Vegas. Only my meter maxes out sooner than that of some others.

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                                          #21
                                          That seems kind of pointless hairshirt fucked up. It's not like they are going on a LOTR scenes package tour cos hey think Elijah Wood is the cat's pyjamas. (The NZ flying parents).
                                          Last edited by Lang Spoon; 26-02-2020, 00:35.

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                                            #22
                                            I'm with Spoony on this. Bollocks to hairshirtism. Fixes to climate change are going to come from the top. They need to be massive and structural. If flights are damaging, their true costs need to be factored in, and people can make informed choices about whether the cost is reasonable. But individuals deciding to not fly is not going to do any good.

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                                              #23
                                              Absolutely, LS. At some point soon, we'll have no choice but to make sacrifices like that, but we'll be able to make the difficult choices easier if we sacrifice the minor things now.

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                                                #24
                                                I'm also with Caja, although with a slightly longer tolerance. Vegas is great but you need to escape from time to time. Remaining fully immersed in Vegas for much more than about 48 hours becomes a little too much for my brain. A four day trip with day 3 tootling around the quiet parts of the desert is a nice balance. A trip that extends beyond about 5 days without spending nights in other towns becomes pretty intolerable.

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                                                  #25
                                                  It's not just hairshirtism. People choosing not to fly puts economic and political pressure and makes systemic change more likely. Like I said to them, it's reasonable to fly for a holiday of a lifetime or a family reunion or a life changing experience. It's not reasonable to do it because you have a mild urge to do so.
                                                  ​​​​​​

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