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Broken & Late Ltd: Britain's Railways

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    Originally posted by Big Boobs and FIRE! View Post
    That doesn’t ring true?

    There is an hourly pattern of connections from Durham to Middlesbrough that takes less than an hour. XX29 Kings Cross off Durham and into Darlo at xx48 for the xx53 Saltburn which is into Boro at x120.

    I’d say an hourly service between two not particularly large places, going on well into the evening, isn’t particularly bad?
    The 21.55 wasn't running on Friday 13 December, there was a 21.40 service instead that's too early to make the connection and ended up being cancelled anyway. So, no trains for 2 hours between two major towns that are 15 miles apart.

    How is Middlesbrough 'not a particularly large place'? It's one of the biggest places in the North East, and it's pretty much not commutable by train from Durham because there are only 3 direct trains a day in one direction and none in the other (and Sunderland/Hartlepool to Durham is even worse.)

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      My students who live in Durham have awful problems getting to Sunderland by bus

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        287 pounds return - i rounded up

        [URL]https://twitter.com/benhoare5/status/1156249758664679426?s=21[/URL]

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          The fact remains that in response to climate change rail prices in the U.K. are going UP above inflation.

          in Germany prices are going DOWN.

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            The main thing wrong with British railways is the Great British taxpayer not wanting to pay the required level of tax to properly subsidise them. This would be the case whether nationalised or in private hands.
            Last edited by Lang Spoon; 03-01-2020, 08:55.

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              Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
              Yes, but that is a return ticket.

              You explicitly stated that it was a single ticket from Manchester to London that cost £300.

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                Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                The fact remains that in response to climate change rail prices in the U.K. are going UP above inflation.

                in Germany prices are going DOWN.
                Which part of this don’t you understand?

                DB is nearing bankruptcy and it’s owner, the German government cannot just give it a handout. Therefore, it has taken away one of its biggest outgoings, the payment of VAT on ticket sales.

                Has it, and all other operators immediately reduced ticket prices by the amount the VAT amount?

                No. The private operators have pocketed the new profit, as have DB for everything except a selective amount of long distance tickets, which they needed to make more commercially competitive anyway as other operators are looking to set up.

                This looks bad on the Goverment, so they have gone big with the news about the long distance price reductions, badging it as some sort of green initiative.

                Meanwhile, across the water, the annual price increase takes place on a network that has been pretty shambolic for the last year. The usual commuter protests take place, and they have latched onto the German news, despite it not applying to commuter tickets, and not actually being a green initiative, just being badged up as one to save face.

                I am interested in what non sequitur re-tweet I will receive in response to this.

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                  Originally posted by Big Boobs and FIRE! View Post
                  DB is nearing bankruptcy and it’s owner, the German government cannot just give it a handout.
                  You might want to have a word with NordLB

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                    Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                    The main thing wrong with British railways is the Great British taxpayer not wanting to pay the required level of tax to properly subsidise them. This would be the case whether nationalised or in private hands.
                    Indeed, or similarly that rail users dont want to pay anywhere near the fare price that it actually costs to run the service, again, whether nationalised or in private hands.

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                      Also why the half finished revamp of Glasgow Queen St looks like a suburban Tesco and Birmingham new Street is unspeakable corner cut flashy on the cheap bullshit. Kings Cross looks nice though, funny that.

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                        Originally posted by Big Boobs and FIRE! View Post

                        Indeed, or similarly that rail users dont want to pay anywhere near the fare price that it actually costs to run the service, again, whether nationalised or in private hands.
                        Surely it's not just up to rail users to pay for the railways, in the same way that it's not up to sick people only to finance the NHS. I'd much sooner pay more tax to have a functioning and integrated public transport system than pay higher fares for it (or indeed pay higher fares for a shit system as is the case at the moment.)

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                          Subsidies for roads are extremely damaging for the health of the country and the planet.

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                            Originally posted by Fussbudget View Post
                            Surely it's not just up to rail users to pay for the railways, in the same way that it's not up to sick people only to finance the NHS. I'd much sooner pay more tax to have a functioning and integrated public transport system than pay higher fares for it (or indeed pay higher fares for a shit system as is the case at the moment.)
                            December 12th showed enough people in England and Wales don't feel that way but.

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                              Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post

                              December 12th showed enough people in England and Wales don't feel that way but.
                              "Enough people" is only 43% of the population of Britain. Don't let the narrative of landslides sucker you in. The majority of the British public still voted for centrist or leftist parties.

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                                Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                Also why the half finished revamp of Glasgow Queen St looks like a suburban Tesco and Birmingham new Street is unspeakable corner cut flashy on the cheap bullshit. Kings Cross looks nice though, funny that.
                                I think KX is awful, as it goes. Same as every redone railway station, it's made everything further away and filled up the space with shops.

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                                  That's why I'm quite pleased that the fast trains from Huddersfield to Manchester now go to Victoria. It's an actual train station, there's a Sainsbury's local and a Gregg's or similar if you need them, but otherwise you're straight out into the city centre, or the trams are right there if you're Chorlton or Salford bound as I usually am.
                                  Piccadilly was a shitty shopping centre that was a good 10-15 minute walk from anywhere in Manchester you actually wanted to be, and that was after the 5 minute walk from the distant platform they dumped you on if it was a through train.

                                  I'm guessing that rent from shops is a decent revenue stream for network rail, or whoever actually owns the stations nowadays, hence the redevelopments that funnel the passengers through the shopping mall.

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                                    Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post

                                    "Enough people" is only 43% of the population of Britain. Don't let the narrative of landslides sucker you in. The majority of the British public still voted for centrist or leftist parties.
                                    It's enough under the ridiculous FPTP to ensure there will never be an equitable tax system.

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                                      Northern nationalised.

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                                        I'm not going to defend Northern too much, but they've let them deal with delays and shit trains for years and just as the various improvements and new trains come into action, nationalise it and probably flog it off for someone elses benefit.

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                                          Agreed, that Arriva is a shit franchise owner is beyond doubt but this move is more politics than concrete action.

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                                            Long overdue, a bit like one of their trains, right guys?

                                            They were dealt a shit hand, but played it very poorly.

                                            That's the Tories' second nationalisation in the past couple of years. South West next, then possibly FTPE? Would they ever consider nationalising the lot?
                                            Such an idea has always polled surprisingly highly among Tory voters.

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                                              Would they also want to pay the increased tax needed to properly subsidise rail travel and infrastructure, whether public owned or not?

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                                                Remember when a party proposed a full nationalisation of the railways and got absolutely slaughtered for it? Ah, those sweet halcyon days of *checks notes* eight weeks ago.

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                                                  Petition: Get your paws off our* loco, Sheldon

                                                  https://www.darlington.gov.uk/your-c...-our-loco#form

                                                  * Not lived there since 1983

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                                                    Shildon?

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