"Keir Starmer"

[wingco]

If, as he may well be, Keir Starmer becomes the next Labour leader I wonder if he will be a sort of contested zone, with those who were moved by his initial video and profession of core socialist beliefs battling it out with backers like his of the (very dodgy) Labour First and Blairites-in-exile who think he will be their handsome, Prime Minister-shaped knight come to restore their nebulous notion of electability? I was initially minded to vote for him on the basis of his being a unity candidate around whom the party could work together, on the assumption that the only future for the party, demographically, in the face of growing inequality, is the sort of shift to the left Corbyn symbolised. I've barely looked at RLB because, fine as she and her ideas surely are, the centrists will snipe at her as hard as the Tory press as "continuity Corbyn", whatever she says and does. I personally don't want to see her elected as a means of keeping the likes of Seumas Milne in a job because frankly, if Corbyn and McDonnell have to go, so should he. But I think she has a great deal, potentially, to contribute.

I mean, as E10 Rifle has said, it actually really shouldn't be so much about who is leader as the nature of the collective effort. Rayner as deputy might help keep Starmer honest. But he's made worrying noises about Labour "ignoring the middle classes" which sound very Blairite.

All of this is a way of saying I'm genuinely torn. It was much simpler in the last two votes; Corbyn. No doubts, no regrets, his personal weaknesses notwithstanding. It's galling to have to concede to centrists who have offered no new ideas except a delusion return to 1990s "when we used to win elections". No acknowledgement, for example, that Scotland was completely lost on their watch, not Corbyn's. Yet the numbers suggest a need to make alliances with the Lib Dems, let alone the right wing of the party.

Right now my instinct is; vote Starmer and pressurise him to be the best Stamer he can be. Alternative thoughts more than welcome.

[DCI Harry Batt]

I don't know as I have any advice to offer Labour members. Except "leave", obvs.

Assuming you aren't going to do that, what is it that you want to achieve, through your membership and through this leader / deputy vote?

[wingco]

Oh, you know, socialism and so forth.

[DCI Harry Batt]

I'd probably have to go back to my original advice then.

[Diable Rouge]

The issue is that European social democracy is in somewhat of an existential crisis at present, only managing to maintain its ground in a handful of countries, such as Portugal, Denmark, Spain and Finland, and in none of those is the conventional lead party of the left as strong as it was even a decade ago. Much as it pains me to say it, the only means to defeat the populist right is somehow to reclaim nationalism for the progressive left, much as the SNP do in Scotland, and Sinn Féin is attempting to reinvent itself as in the Republic.

[Alderman Barnes]

I live in a different county now and have never been a member of the Labour party, but I'd go for the nearest to Continuity Corbyn, which seems to me to be Long-Bailey. I think the key is to check their backers.

The reason for that is because I have never seen such a campaign of deceit in a British election. Not only by the Conservative party and the right-wing media, but by people who call themselves friends of the Labour movement such as the Guardian and most of the PLP. They were a fucking disgrace and were happy to enable this Tory government rather than change their old order,

It might take a generation, but they can't be allowed to win. Not after what happened after 2015.

[Lang Spoon]

The issue is that European social democracy is in somewhat of an existential crisis at present, only managing to maintain its ground in a handful of countries, such as Portugal, Denmark, Spain and Finland, and in none of those is the conventional lead party of the left as strong as it was even a decade ago. Much as it pains me to say it, the only means to defeat the populist right is somehow to reclaim nationalism for the progressive left, much as the SNP do in Scotland, and Sinn Féin is attempting to reinvent itself as in the Republic.

The Greens seem to be filling this space in parts of Europe, doubt they can ever break through under FPTP but. I fear it'll be a long time before English Nationalism mutates into a Progressive Beast.

[Diable Rouge]

Do local Labour branches have much actual power nowadays, or are orders directed from national/constituency HQs? General community activism, that seems much neglected by modern political parties, seems the best start for a revival.

[Nocturnal Submission]

I fear it'll be a long time before English Nationalism mutates into a Progressive Beast.

Yes, Billy Bragg seems to have lost the old fire.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Don't know too much about about him, but Keir Starmer is a great name. Should definitely be an action movie legend, probably with a '00' designation.

[Lang Spoon]

His hair would get a supporting role. Best English Pol hair since Douglas Hurd.

[Nefertiti2]

I agree with both Alderman Barnes and WingCo. I think Starmer is a decent fellow as it goes. I know a couple of people who know him and speak pretty highly of him, and i hink his work as a lawyer has shown a lot of commitment. But once left wing lawyers can go in some odd directions. And some of the people backing starmer, and on his team are just vile.

I'm voting RLB and Dawn Butler
Angela Rayner whilst charming and salt of the earth has been quite right wing on issues that matter to me- like Academisatio in schools for example. I like Butler a lot.

[wingco]

I have huge sympathy with what Alderman Barnes says.

[Nefertiti2]

and in any eventuality the stronger the RLB vote was the more it can help to keep Starmer relatively honest where left wing politics is concerned

[treibeis]

The issue is that European social democracy is in somewhat of an existential crisis at present

In two weeks' time, I'm due to vote, properly, for the first time in my life.

I'd love to vote SPD. Up the workers, Willy Brandt, Helmut Schmidt, all the rest of it.

Ain't gonna happen, though. The SPD in 2020 have as much in common with "my" SPD as Dennis Skinner has with Tony Blair.

[Satchmo Distel]

Having the same first name of Labour's founder is his main asset AFAIK.

[Stumpy Pepys]

In two weeks' time, I'm due to vote, properly, for the first time in my life.

I'd love to vote SPD. Up the workers, Willy Brandt, Helmut Schmidt, all the rest of it.

Ain't gonna happen, though. The SPD in 2020 have as much in common with "my" SPD as Dennis Skinner has with Tony Blair.

Fräulein Pepys and I had the same feeling in the last round of elections in Munich. We both voted Green.

[E10 Rifle]

Word is that RLB wants Milne, Murphy and Murray binned. She's got the admirable Matt Zarb-Cousin on her team, who's "tarnished" by once being a Corbyn staffer too, but wasn't there at the end.

I don't know who I'm going to vote for - though I'd like the chance to vote for Dawn Butler as deputy - but I'm not sure as I trust Starmer, or, wholly, Rayner, though I think she'd do the deputy job properly, campaign well and consistently, and not be the conniving, scheming shit-stirrer Watson was. Cos the Watson mistake is one the left definitely shouldn't be making again (plenty voted for him as first or second in 2015,self included)

[Flynnie]

Zarb-Cousin is forthright and good at a Twitter dunk but he’s miles more collegial and an open book than Milne or Murray would be.

[Snake Plissken]

Voting for Watson was one of the compromises the Left (including myself) made to the Sensibles which - of course - never got reciprocated.

[David Agnew]

Voting for Watson was one of the compromises the Left (including myself) made to the Sensibles which - of course - never got reciprocated.

It wasn't really though, was it? Watson and Eagle were the only two candidates last time round who could remotely be described as being anywhere on the left.

I really want Dawn Butler on the ballot, not from a representation point of view, but because she'd be the best person for the job.

RLB might be getting rid of Milne and Murphy, but her campaign strategist is Jon Lansman. Who is just as much of an autocrat, and frankly it puts me off even putting her down as a preference.

[DCI Harry Batt]

I still don't get why people voted for Watson.

I can see the liking for MZ-C, but I have issues.