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Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

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    #26
    Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

    Wasn't there a captain some years ago who loaded up the lifeboats with his luggage and scarpered?

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      #27
      Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

      He's certainly making an early bid for "worst human of 2012":

      The cruise liner captain accused of abandoning ship after he struck rocks off the Tuscan coast last Friday has reportedly claimed he was unable to lead the evacuation because he slipped and tripped into a lifeboat while helping passengers leave the stricken vessel.
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ipped-lifeboat

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        #28
        Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

        Er Liquidatore wrote:
        Bored, it's a) a seemingly incompetent cocky coward being in a position of huge responsibility, and b) the way his home town has rallied around him, regardless of his guilt (which is pretty fucking clear, from where I'm standing). Presumably because he was nice to his mum and used buy sweets from the local shop
        And in Linus's case you also have to bear in mind that he has a long standing history of Italo-phobia. Linus on the subject of Italy is almost as wild eyed and ranting as me on Arsenal and/or cheese.

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          #29
          Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

          He's saying today to the Italian press: 'I did what I had to do, I didn't run away, I helped others'. His ex-captain has come out and defended him as well, saying that his manner on the phone was down to shock (not entirely unreasonable, in fairness).

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            #30
            Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

            Bored, it's a) a seemingly incompetent cocky coward being in a position of huge responsibility, and b) the way his home town has rallied around him, regardless of his guilt (which is pretty fucking clear, from where I'm standing). Presumably because he was nice to his mum and used buy sweets from the local shop
            I don't understand though, are either of these particularly Italian traits? My personal experience of Italy is a few visits to Milan, Turin and Sicily and I can't say I have noticed this. Obviously, like everyone else, there is the media views on Italy which dwell on the cowardly part you mention overmuch but I don't take much notice of such generalisations

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              #31
              Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

              Bored, you are talking to two people who have lived in Italy for extended periods of time.

              Give us some credit.

              If you could read Italian, we could refer you to dozens of columns and comments that are making essentially the same point.

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                #32
                Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                There doesn't seem to be much of a climate of accountability is how I read it.

                Comment


                  #33
                  Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                  Scoundrels and conspiracies...very modern Italian, no?

                  Comment


                    #34
                    Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                    Paul S
                    Some of the people I know who work in the maritime industry won't go on cruise ships which have more than a couple of hundred passengers onboard as it means the cruise ship is going to be a lot smaller and not top heavy. It also makes the holiday more personal and more fun.
                    I find the best way to make a holiday any fun at all is to not involve a cruise ship.

                    Comment


                      #35
                      Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                      Bored, you are talking to two people who have lived in Italy for extended periods of time.

                      Give us some credit
                      ua, I am giving you credit. Credit for explaining exactly what you are bloody on about. All I can see is half-inferred suggestions to stuff. Are we talking about a general Italian culture? Their attitude towards health and safety? Their parochialism? Are we talking about national attitudes or regional? If so, that seems a touch odd to me as Italy, if anything, is very much a collection of loosely connected regions without much to link them, especially North and South. I have lived in England and Wales all my life but, for the life of me, can't speak for how a ferry captain from the North East, Cornwall or North Wales would react in such a situation.

                      All I can see is the parochial attitude of his town and his own actions. I understand that, administratively, Italy is, let's be kind, idiosyncratic on a national and local level but is that what is being inferred here?

                      Who are the two people anyway? Yourself and Liq? It was linus that I was initially addressing and then you?

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                        #36
                        Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                        dglhand of god wrote:
                        I find the best way to make a holiday any fun at all is to not involve a cruise ship.
                        My first cruise was under (mild) protest and I had a blast. I've been on two more since then.

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                          #37
                          Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                          The Times references some pretty damning comment from people who have worked with Schettino before.

                          His former captain told La Repubblica "He was too exuberebt. He's a braggart. More than once I had to put him in his place"
                          Other crew mentioned an incident when he set sail from Marseille last year despite 60 knot winds and against all best device.

                          A general theme in the coverage suggests that he was driving his boat the way one might drive a Ferrari, something else that conforms uncomfortably truthfully to another stereotype of Italian men.

                          Comment


                            #38
                            Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                            Worn Old Motorbike wrote:
                            My first cruise was under (mild) protest and I had a blast.
                            You were on the Achille Lauro?

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                              #39
                              Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                              Excellent.

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                                #40
                                Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                Bored, Liq gave two very good explanations of "what we are on about", to which your response was basically "I didn't notice this while on holiday."

                                It's not the easiest attitude to engage with.

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                                  #41
                                  Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                  I'm not having that, ursus. Liq provided the behaviour of the individual in this case and his home town and we are supposed to extrapolate that to the whole of Italy? I was actually doing the opposite by not generalising from my limited experience of different parts of Italy. Come on, it's not on and it is something you would pick up on in someone else, quite correctly.

                                  Like I say, if this is some sort of example of a national attitude towards health and safety or, as has been mentioned, corporate accountability then it is a line that could be followed but it is dangerously close to "Italians drive their boats like they do their cars" presently without some better examples or expansion

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                                    #42
                                    Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                    Bored, it has virtually nothing to do with health and safety.

                                    It has a lot to do with how individuals reach positions of power in Italian society, how they act once they there, and (especially) how they act when they are caught doing something that they shouldn't have done.

                                    And while that particular dynamic is stronger in certain places and certain professions than it is in others, it is common enough throughout the country so that I'm quite confident that any Italian who would engage with you on the subject would recognise.

                                    As I noted, there are dozens of columns on this in Italy and by now thousands of blog posts, comments and tweets.

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                                      #43
                                      Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                      What dalliance said is a bit over the top, and not really what I'm on about. Regardless of his abilities as a seafarer, ship commander or what have, what is clear is that he was not capable of handling the responsibilities of his position. Now that isn't uniqie toItaly or Italians, but it is (or at least looks to be) an example of someone being promoted way beyond where they should be, a serious problem in Italian society (clientelism, who you know etc). Don't try and compare to anything in Britain, as it is just not the same.

                                      The whole handwringing his old village is currently engaging in is pretty typical as well. You know that if this happened in Britain his neighbour would probably say 'never liked the cunt anyway, fucking show-off'

                                      Comment


                                        #44
                                        Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                        Ursus, I am sure that any Italian individual, column or blog would be able to inform me on this but, stupid me, I thought I might get a bit of expansion or clarification from people (as you have just done)who were actually, you know, on the thread and website I was on at the time without being made out to be bloody trolling.

                                        The whole handwringing his old village is currently engaging in is pretty typical as well. You know that if this happened in Britain his neighbour would probably say 'never liked the cunt anyway, fucking show-off'
                                        I don't know. Every time one of these nutters goes on a killing rampage the locals tend to say what nice quiet people they seemed. I wonder whether they, like this guy's village, get a bit pissed off with the press descending like vultures and stopping from doing their shopping

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                                          #45
                                          Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                          Bored, if I was going to accuse you of trolling, I would have called you a troll.

                                          Comment


                                            #46
                                            Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                            Of course, this is very Italian not in the sense that ALL Italians are like this; rather that those who work their way up the greasy pole tend to be. It's one of the reasons they emigrate in such large numbers

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                                              #47
                                              Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                              Bored, if I was going to accuse you of trolling, I would have called you a troll.
                                              Right and, if I am missing something or do not understand something, I will make it obvious so that someone can enlighten me. I am not sure what is hard to engage with in that 'attitude'. If I am looking for a ruck, my attitude is very different

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                                                #48
                                                Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                                A lot of this seems to be a retread of the Amanda Knox thread (re: Italian community attitudes and perceptions).

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                                                  #49
                                                  Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                                  Of course, this is very Italian not in the sense that ALL Italians are like this; rather that those who work their way up the greasy pole tend to be.
                                                  Yeah, I'm getting that.

                                                  It's one of the reasons they emigrate in such large numbers
                                                  The ones pissed off with the greasy-pole climbing? Do you mean historically? To the US, for example?

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                                                    #50
                                                    Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                                    Well the emigration in that era was more about old world poverty, really. The current wave of young Italians leaving the country are often middle class and well-educated, and sick of being told that they have to wait until they're 40 (or older) to achieve something. There's a lot of money to be made in teaching Italian kids and adolescents English, that's for sure.

                                                    Edit

                                                    And now I'm off out, so any further responses will have to wait. Ta-ra

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