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    Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

    What a colossal fuck up on the captain's part, eh? Overrides the self-sailing system to do a cock-waving flyby to impress (who?) the head waiter, runs into a rock, doesn't sound the alarm until it's way too late, and then abandons ship to 'oversee' the evacuation from shore.

    Fantastic. And what's the death toll already? And then, what if this thing shifts and springs a fuel leak in a marine nature preserve?

    #2
    Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

    I've been wondering why there's been no thread on this.

    Actually collisions at sea are far more common than people think. People imagine that ships can sail anywhere and as there's a lot of sea there shouldn't be any collisions. The truth is very different. Shipping lanes can be very narrow and require constant dredging to keep them open.

    As an example, there is an oil refinery at a place called Coryton on the South Essex coast. The oil tankers which go in are known as VLCC's (Very Large Crude Carriers) and they have to go to a place called "The Knock" (somwehere off Clacton) then come in with the tide through a very narrow channel to get to the refinery. Time it wrong and the thing can ground and break up. Sometimes there can be as little as 6ft below the bottom of the hull and the seabed, which fotunately in the Thames is made up of sand.

    So you can see the poetantial for something to go wrong is enormous. That fact that something doesn't go wrong is down to the skill and experience of the captain and crew.

    In other words, collisions at sea are far more common than you realise and the margins of error can be tiny.

    Comment


      #3
      Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

      The captain does seem to have fucked up but there is also a strong suggestion that the owners are hanging him out to dry because human error is a more containable explanation for them then wider questions about boat design and safety.

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        #4
        Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

        Paul S wrote:
        In other words, collisions at sea are far more common than you realise and the margins of error can be tiny.
        So taking a large cruise ship much nearer to the shore than it's planned course for anything other than emergency reasons would be an utterly idiotic thing to do, right?

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          #5
          Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

          The Cruiseliner company were very quick to blame the captain. I thought they were using him as a scapegoat.

          But after listening to this short
          translated audio of the conversation between the Captain and the coastguard, I'm probably wrong.

          http://audioboo.fm/boos/627323-coastguard-tells-captain-to-return-to-ship#t=1m50s

          Comment


            #6
            Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

            Can't open the link, but a partial transcript is HERE.

            My sister-in-law happened to be on a cruise to Mozambique at the same time. Talk on her ship was that the Costa Concordia was still going to have its evacuation drill, whereas on her ship it took place a couple of hours after boarding.

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              #7
              Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

              So taking a large cruise ship much nearer to the shore than it's planned course for anything other than emergency reasons would be an utterly idiotic thing to do, right?
              Got it in one.

              Unless the Captain can prove that his employers had routinely told him to "show off" the ship at every possible opporunity by sailing close to islands. The ship had done it before - sailing close to that particular island - but that was all pre-arranged.

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                #8
                Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                Criminal dereliction. Even by Italian standards.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                  This guy is going down for a while

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                    #10
                    Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                    Well played, Liq.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                      To be honest, my answer to this

                      I've been wondering why there's been no thread on this.
                      is this

                      Actually collisions at sea are far more common than people think.
                      The only noteworthy thing about this crash, until the monumental fuck-ups highlighted in the last day or two, has been that it happened in Western Europe and produced great photos.

                      I haven't checked the Lloyds List or anything but I guess there is, maybe, one crash a month like this with similar or more death tolls?

                      Criminal dereliction. Even by Italian standards.
                      Does Italy lead the world in this sort of disaster or maritime safety issues?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                        Translation of the radio exchange between the captain and a captain in the Italian Coast Guard.

                        Capt Gregorio De Falco: This is De Falco speaking from Livorno. Am I speaking with the commander?

                        Capt Francesco Schettino: Yes. Good evening, Cmdr. De Falco.

                        De Falco: Please tell me your name.

                        Schettino: I'm Cmdr Schettino, commander.

                        De Falco: Schettino? Listen, Schettino. There are people trapped on board. Now you go with your boat under the prow on the starboard side. There is a pilot ladder. You will climb that ladder and go on board. You go on board and then you will tell me how many people there are. Is that clear? I'm recording this conversation, Cmdr. Schettino...

                        Schettino: Commander, let me tell you one thing...

                        De Falco: Speak up! Put your hand in front of the microphone and speak more loudly, is that clear?

                        Schettino: In this moment, the boat is tipping...

                        De Falco: I understand that. Listen, there are people that are coming down the pilot ladder of the prow. You go up that pilot ladder, get on that ship and tell me how many people are still on board. And what they need. Is that clear? You need to tell me if there are children, women or people in need of assistance. And tell me the exact number of each of these categories. Is that clear? Listen, Schettino, that you saved yourself from the sea, but I am going to...really do something bad to you...I am going to make you pay for this. Go on board, [expletive]!

                        Schettino: Commander, please...

                        De Falco: No, please. You now get up and go on board. They are telling me that on board there are still...

                        Schettino: I am here with the rescue boats, I am here, I am not going anywhere, I am here...

                        De Falco: What are you doing, commander?

                        Schettino: I am here to coordinate the rescue...

                        De Falco: What are you coordinating there? Go on board! Coordinate the rescue from aboard the ship. Are you refusing?

                        Schettino: No, I am not refusing.

                        De Falco: "Are you refusing to go aboard, commander? Can you tell me the reason why you are not going?

                        Schettino: I am not going because the other lifeboat is stopped.

                        De Falco: You go aboard. It is an order. Don't make any more excuses. You have declared "abandon ship." Now I am in charge. You go on board! Is that clear? Do you hear me? Go, and call me when you are aboard. My air rescue crew is there.

                        Schettino: Where are your rescuers?

                        De Falco: My air rescue is on the prow. Go. There are already bodies, Schettino.

                        Schettino: How many bodies are there?

                        De Falco: I don't know. I have heard of one. You are the one who has to tell me how many there are. Christ.

                        Schettino: But do you realize it is dark and here we can't see anything...

                        De Falco: And so what? You want go home, Schettino? It is dark and you want to go home? Get on that prow of the boat using the pilot ladder and tell me what can be done, how many people there are and what their needs are. Now!

                        Schettino : ...I am with my second in command.

                        De Falco: So both of you go up then ... You and your second go on board now. Is that clear?

                        Schettino: Commander, I want to go on board, but it is simply that the other boat here ... there are other rescuers. It has stopped and is waiting...

                        De Falco: It has been an hour that you have been telling me the same thing. Now, go on board. Go on board! And then tell me immediately how many people there are there.

                        Schettino: OK, commander

                        De Falco: Go, immediately!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                          surely as this is his first offecne and this is italy, he's going to be let go?

                          To be honest, my answer to this

                          I've been wondering why there's been no thread on this.

                          is this

                          Actually collisions at sea are far more common than people think.


                          I thought that it was because the irish people on board were safe. That's what the first news bulletin told me, so it's safe to ignore.

                          I'm impressed that he did such a thorough job of sinking such a big boat in such shallow water. It's not that easy you know.

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                            #14
                            Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                            I'm impressed that he did such a thorough job of sinking such a big boat in such shallow water. It's not that easy you know.
                            It is actually - and I'm amazed this sort of thing hasn't happended before. Modern cruise ships are very big - but their draught is relatively low so they can get into small ports and harbours without passengers having to clamber on and off a tender. Consequently these things are top heavy. If a top heavy ship is holed it doesn't need to take on that much water for it to start to list at an ever increasing angle. Hence, a super tanker (like a VLCC mentioned earlier in the thread) is likely to list after being damaged than a cruise ship. This also makes cruise ships particularly vulnerable to terrorist attack.

                            Some of the people I know who work in the maritime industry won't go on cruise ships which have more than a couple of hundred passengers onboard as it means the cruise ship is going to be a lot smaller and not top heavy. It also makes the holiday more personal and more fun.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                              They are probably like my Dad though and, having worked on ships, think that having a holiday on one is madness

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                Bored, the capsizing of a large cruise ship with this kind of loss of life is actually quite rare.

                                You can't really compare it to maritime accidents in general, any more than you would compare passenger jet crashes to the loss of military aircraft, or the derailing of a major passenger express to that of a goods train in a switching yard.

                                The transcript is at once remarkable and completely familiar to anyone who has had multiple dealings with a certain type of Italian in a position of authority. I'm sure that this guy doesn't pay his taxes, either.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                  I must say, if that happened in ireland, or england, at some point the coastguard would definitely have sworn at the captain.

                                  If a top heavy ship is holed it doesn't need to take on that much water for it to start to list at an ever increasing angle.

                                  I'm impressed that he managed to get so much water into the boat. it must have been an extravagantly long hole, going through several bulkheads.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                    Berbaslug, the Coast Guard did swear at the idiot. The transcript has been bowdlerised. In the original, he is essentially told to "Get the fuck back on board!"

                                    The hole was about 50 metre long; they basically opened her up as if using a can opener.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                      that's more like it. you can hear the veins standing out on the forehead of the coastguard. Not swearing would have been absurd.

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                                        #20
                                        Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                        Schettino is really outdoing himself.

                                        He's now claiming that he didn't enter the lifeboat voluntarily, but rather tripped and fell into it.

                                        The village where he lives has also come to his aid, insisting to all and sundry that he is being victimised.

                                        This is a very Italian story.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                          Bored, the capsizing of a large cruise ship with this kind of loss of life is actually quite rare.

                                          You can't really compare it to maritime accidents in general, any more than you would compare passenger jet crashes to the loss of military aircraft, or the derailing of a major passenger express to that of a goods train in a switching yard.
                                          Although I was referring to merchant shipping as well, of course, I was more tihnking of ferries. There appears to be at least one ferry sinking a year each in the India and the Phillipines with bigger death tolls that have happened here

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                            The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote:
                                            I must say, if that happened in ireland, or england, at some point the coastguard would definitely have sworn at the captain.
                                            I suspect if it had happened in Ireland or England someone would have chinned the captain at the first possible opportunity.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                              This is a very Italian story
                                              As with linus' mention, I feel like I am missing something here

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                                Like I said on that there Facey a minute ago; The language is very formal, but very aggressive at the same time, which makes it sound like a teacher admonishing a naughty ten-year-old. Kind of makes it more powerful, actually. He also uses 'cazzo' which translates more like 'fuck' than the 'dammit' they use there.

                                                That conversation really sums up the conflict between the two Italys: think of Schettino as Berlusoni (and the ship as the country), and De Falco as Mario Monti, and you're nearly there

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Nothing on the Italian cruise ship, then?

                                                  The tone of the coastguard really is "i'm coming down there to beat you, whether you get on that boat or not you spineless cur."

                                                  The bit where he discovers that the first mate is also in the lifeboat is pretty funny as well. (if it wasn't so serious)

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