Covid-19 pandemic

[Ray de Galles]

They're supposed to get a job at Number 10, silly!

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

So if both parents of a young child or children contract the virus at the same time what are they supposed to do, other than take the child/children to someone who will look after them or invite someone to collect them, even if that involves a long-distance journey or the new carers taking the risk of being infected too?

They didn't both have the virus in this version of events. His partner had the virus and they went to his mother's pre-arranged birthday party sorry pre-emptively sought alternative child care arrangements in the event that he came down with it, but then didn't need the alternative child care after all, and went back to London.

In another version of events his partner came down with it, he rushed home, and then 24 hours later he collapsed and was at death's door for ten days.

Another version of events will be along soon.

I was talking through some of the press conference so may have missed if anyone asked it, but there is an obvious question I haven't seen the answer to which is - how long were they in Durham for, before they returned to London? Shapps kept repeating this "he stayed put" line, but how long for?

[Amor de Cosmos]

So if both parents of a young child or children contract the virus at the same time what are they supposed to do, other than take the child/children to someone who will look after them or invite someone to collect them, even if that involves a long-distance journey or the new carers taking the risk of being infected too?

You can't be certain you have the virus without being tested. I don't know how likely/easy that is in the UK at the moment but I imagine Cummings would have no problem. If it's positive you go into quarantine. Your family, if negative, stay away from you. If positive they too are in quarantine. You don't bundle everyone into the car, drive the length of the country and expose yourselves to two members of the most vulnerable Covid-19 group.

[Nocturnal Submission]

They didn't both have the virus in this version of events. His partner had the virus and they went to his mother's pre-arranged birthday party sorry pre-emptively sought alternative child care arrangements in the event that he came down with it, but then didn't need the alternative child care after all, and went back to London.

In another version of events his partner came down with it, he rushed home, and then 24 hours later he collapsed and was at death's door for ten days.

Another version of events will be along soon.

I was talking through some of the press conference so may have missed if anyone asked it, but there is an obvious question I haven't seen the answer to which is - how long were they in Durham for, before they returned to London? Shapps kept repeating this "he stayed put" line, but how long for?

Actually, I was asking the question in general terms rather in particular relation to Cummings - I'm not really up on the specifics of the case, which appear to be rather fluid anyway.

[Nocturnal Submission]

You can't be certain you have the virus without being tested. I don't know how likely/easy that is in the UK at the moment but I imagine Cummings would have no problem. If it's positive you go into quarantine. Your family, if negative, stay away from you. If positive they too are in quarantine. You don't bundle everyone into the car, drive the length of the country and expose yourselves to two members of the most vulnerable Covid-19 group.

But what are you supposed to do if both parents are seriously unwell at the same time?

[Amor de Cosmos]

But what are you supposed to do if both parents are seriously unwell at the same time?

You need to determine what's causing them to be sick. If they both have Covid-19 then they'll be in quarantine. The children, should be picked-up — not delivered — and cared for elsewhere. Who and where — family or friends — will be a very difficult decision but it still has to made that way.

[S. aureus]

One of my stresses is what happens with the kids if I come down with it, particularly if I'm in the set that gets extremely ill, and especially if there's some form of rapid deterioration. My wife's sane and sensible relative is 2 hours drive away, and would probably help out. I've broached the subject, but I don't think one can be certain how people will respond in the circumstances regardless of what they'd say before (and that goes both ways).

[S. aureus]

Not at all true here, but I am increasingly feeling that we are very much an outlier

I'd presume that this is because the effects of unchecked spreading are more immediately apparent where you are?

San Mateo county currently has a 0.2% infection rate (tested positive), I personally know nobody who has it, as far as I'm aware nobody I know knows anyone in the area that has it.

[Nefertiti2]

So if both parents of a young child or children contract the virus at the same time what are they supposed to do, other than take the child/children to someone who will look after them or invite someone to collect them, even if that involves a long-distance journey or the new carers taking the risk of being infected too?

Ring a friend.

[Balderdasha]

Unless you're actually hospitalised, then I assumed you do what we always have to do when we're sick, which is suck it up and look after the children anyway. We've definitely had situations where both parents have been knocked out with flu, and we still have to look after our children. We take it in turns to crawl out of bed and throw sandwiches at the children and they get to watch whatever they like on TV and play endless cbeebies games on our phones. We don't have an alternative. I've long said, jokingly, that there should be a fifth emergency service, which is state sanctioned nannies you can ring when you're too sick to look after your children, but sadly it doesn't exist.

[ursus arctos]

I'd presume that this is because the effects of unchecked spreading are more immediately apparent where you are?

I think that is right

Pretty much everyone here knows someone who has had it, many know people who have died! Some know many people who have died.

I also wouldn't discount the impact of many people with second and third homes having fled early. Those who remained here are more community-oriented than those who left.

[Nocturnal Submission]

You need to determine what's causing them to be sick. If they both have Covid-19 then they'll be in quarantine. The children, should be picked-up — not delivered — and cared for elsewhere. Who and where — family or friends — will be a very difficult decision but it still has to made that way.

OK, all of which might still technically fall foul of the current guidelines/restrictions.

I'm not really following the Cummings case but if both my wife and I were unwell with the virus, or thought that we could soon be, had young dependants and had the offer of help from family members who were also able to put us up in nearby accommodation, I think I'd consider that a near-perfect contingency plan and jump at it. And I think that the authorities would consider it a reasonable thing to do.

[Ray de Galles]

Unless you're actually hospitalised, then I assumed you do what we always have to do when we're sick, which is suck it up and look after the children anyway. We've definitely had situations where both parents have been knocked out with flu, and we still have to look after our children. We take it in turns to crawl out of bed and throw sandwiches at the children and they get to watch whatever they like on TV and play endless cbeebies games on our phones. We don't have an alternative.

Exactly.

My assistant and her partner both had C19 and the periods they were seriously affected crossed over by a number of days.

Whichever one of them was the least knocked out by it at any one time took care of their 4 year old twins, despite the fact that her parents live ten minutes away because it wasn't fair to risk the grandparents' health.

Thousands of people all across the country have had to make the best of incredibly difficult situations because of the lockdown. They just weren't allowed to reinterpret the law, rules and guidance to their liking and have the retrospective backing of the ENTIRE FUCKING CABINET in doing so.

The fact that the government are burning up all their remaining political capital to defend Cummings paints him as having cult leader status. The legitimacy of what is left of the lockdown has been jettisoned to save his position. It is morally bankrupt and absolutely corrupt.

[ursus arctos]

Very well said.

It is politics inspired by Leona Helmsley. Their core belief is that "rules" are for "little people"

Campaign finance rules don't apply (to them). Press standards don't apply (to them). Governmental communications regulations don't apply (to them).

And neither does public health guidance in the midst of a pandemic.

[Amor de Cosmos]

if both my wife and I were unwell with the virus, or thought that we could soon be,

There's a big difference between those two states though. My stepson, his wife and three year old daughter live in Haringey. Back in early March he had a temperature, a cough etc., so he called the NHS advice line and described his symptoms, they said "It certainly sounds like the virus." "Can I get tested?" "No, sorry. What you need to do is shut yourself in one room in the house. Don't come out while other family members are present. If you need to use the bathroom warn everyone beforehand. Meals need to be eaten alone in the room." This lasted for ten days until the symptoms subsided. Shortly afterwards their daughter had a similar bout, though it didn't last as long. They still have no idea if it was Covid-19 or not but, as Balders says, they handled it themselves. They didn't leap into their tiny Skoda and drive to Manchester where his wife's parents live. You can't know for sure whether you have the virus until you've been tested (and again I'm not sure of the current UK regs) it might just be a bad cold. What you mustn't do, in any case, is spread it around. Driving any distance is just the wrong thing to do. On the way did you stop for gas, use a bathroom, get something to eat? They all present opportunities to encourage infection.

[Nefertiti2]

Also Cummings and his wife are both wealthy enough to pay for a nanny.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

OK, all of which might still technically fall foul of the current guidelines/restrictions.

I'm not really following the Cummings case but if both my wife and I were unwell with the virus, or thought that we could soon be, had young dependants and had the offer of help from family members who were also able to put us up in nearby accommodation, I think I'd consider that a near-perfect contingency plan and jump at it. And I think that the authorities would consider it a reasonable thing to do.

They wouldn't have, or shouldn't have, based on the guidelines and the law at the time. This "safeguarding" / "risk assessment" / "common sense" override which they have retrospectively relied on just wasn't there to begin with. It's a distraction in this story, which already involves direct contradictions and deliberate confusions. The co-ordinated media response by the Cabinet is designed specifically to trigger this debate of "well what would you do?". Around the time he was allegedly bopping to Dancing Queen, someone was threatened with arrest in South Yorkshire because their son was kicking a ball on the grass immediately outside their front door, with the police maintaining it didn't constitute part of the property because it wasn't fenced off.

[pebblethefish]

Also Cummings and his wife are both wealthy enough to pay for a nanny.

So they should have paid money for a poorer person to come in and risk their lives to look after the kids? Not sure that would have killed the story.

[Satchmo Distel]

https://twitter.com/nycjim/status/1264182362482642945

A thousand deaths a day in Florida by July is quite likely unless the weather is a mitigating factor in killing the virus outdoors. The Interstates are jam packed this weekend and so are the beaches.

[The Red Max]

Checkmate?

[URL="https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1264262838622830601"]https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/stat...62838622830601[/URL]

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Checkmate?

[URL="https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1264262838622830601"]https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/stat...62838622830601[/URL]

Thought it was only a matter of time til news of another trip emerged - Labour's letter pointedly asked for confirmation of how many trips he made.

[Jimski]

Unless you're actually hospitalised, then I assumed you do what we always have to do when we're sick, which is suck it up and look after the children anyway. We've definitely had situations where both parents have been knocked out with flu, and we still have to look after our children. We take it in turns to crawl out of bed and throw sandwiches at the children and they get to watch whatever they like on TV and play endless cbeebies games on our phones. We don't have an alternative. I've long said, jokingly, that there should be a fifth emergency service, which is state sanctioned nannies you can ring when you're too sick to look after your children, but sadly it doesn't exist.

This. It's all you really can do, given the regulations. My wife and I discussed this and decided we'd just have to cope if it happened, as there was nothing else that could be done. And there are plenty of single parents who had to do precisely this.

(I think if you're both hospitalised, then it's up to the local authority to help you out, in whatever way they deem best. Certainly not the parents' decision to make.)

[Antepli Ejderha]

He's been seen in London, Durham area, London and then Durham again and back to London. He's clearly told a pack of lies and been caught out.

Laura K what you tweeted now?

[That Night In Barcelona]

He's been seen in London, Durham area, London and then Durham again and back to London. He's clearly told a pack of lies and been caught out.

Laura K what you tweeted now?

Nothing from her on Twitter yet although to be fair, it's Saturday evening and people do have to take a night off sometimes*.

*this isn't sarcasm; I don't know if she reads the replies to her tweets but if so it must be taking some toll on her self-perception

[Jimski]

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1264147481778106370