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    Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
    The horrible thing about that is that all these fascist politicans who got together at Mar a Lago will get great treatment and therefore take treatment away from people who aren't fascist cunts. None of them are going to die a horrible death, they'll just suck up resources from decent people.

    I mean, are we absolutely certain that gravy browning or whatever it is that Trump smears all over his face isn't actually an effective barrier to COVID-19 transmission?

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      Indeed. And coughs beget coughs, in my experience.

      Pennsylvania has shut down everything “non-essential.” I think I will order in some food in the next few days just to help these places out. Several have dropped their delivery fees.

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        Our household has been sheltering in place since Thursday, so uh, we're ahead of the curve I guess. We're down to just the one gallon of milk with children who consume a ridiculous amount of it though, we're discussing whether to add an additional CSA box order to get more on Friday or whether one of us will go on a mission this week to restock.

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          Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
          The thing of New Zealand and Australia "ordering" people to self-isolate on arrival. How are they planning to enforce that? Surely by its nature it's "politely asking" at best, and something that very few travellers are going to comply with?
          It works through peer pressure. Every other country which is telling people to self-isolate when they have symptoms is relying on people behaving themselves as well. Here the same thing has been policy and most tourists are sticking with it or sorting out flights to get back home asap, like sensible people. One group in a large hotel in the city centre were defying the quarantine order, so the hotel called in about them and the police turned up and arrested the lot of them. There's also a local who's been jailed after beating up the doorman of the building he lived in, who refused to open the door for him because he'd just got back from a holiday in Europe and wasn't meant to be going anywhere. These people are dickheads, but they're in the minority (probably).

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            I can't think properly.

            Can anybody give me some good news / positive scenarios?

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              As has been the case in Hubei and South Korea, the infection curve in Italy appears to be flattening.

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                Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
                I can't think properly.

                Can anybody give me some good news / positive scenarios?
                Best case scenario

                People adhere to short-term lock down for three weeks or so, the virus does not spread and those who have it recover and have the antibodies. With transmission stopped, the virus basically just dies out in its few carriers, and the whole thing is done and dusted in a handful of weeks.

                (Relatively) Good news is that almost all the disruption we've had has come from people acting responsibly to contain and prevent the spread. This means that society is acting as a society and is willing to accept a degree of pain for the greater good. And that as people (and organisations, and certain governments) are behaving responsibly with an eye of communal wellbeing, there is a chance of making the impacts of the disease (comparatively) less-bad.

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                  Oh fuck, did you read this?

                  I treat patients who are proven to have coronavirus. One week ago, I was wearing full PPE [personal protective equipment]. That consists of a proper FFP3 mask [offering high respiratory protection], a visor, a surgical gown, and two pairs of gloves.

                  Now we’ve been told not to bother with any of that. They’ve told us “just treat it as though it’s seasonal flu”. Now we are expected to wear just a normal surgical mask, a pair of ordinary short gloves, and a plastic apron that doesn’t cover all of you like a surgical gown does.
                  And this:

                  Meanwhile, it emerged that GP practices in about 20 parts of England have been supplied with face masks that expired in 2016 but purported to be useable until next year. Pulse, a website for GPs, disclosed that stickers on batches of masks saying “best before 2016” had been covered over with new stickers reading “2021”.
                  Last edited by DCI Harry Batt; 16-03-2020, 23:17.

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                    Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post

                    Best case scenario

                    People adhere to short-term lock down for three weeks or so, the virus does not spread and those who have it recover and have the antibodies. With transmission stopped, the virus basically just dies out in its few carriers, and the whole thing is done and dusted in a handful of weeks.

                    (Relatively) Good news is that almost all the disruption we've had has come from people acting responsibly to contain and prevent the spread. This means that society is acting as a society and is willing to accept a degree of pain for the greater good. And that as people (and organisations, and certain governments) are behaving responsibly with an eye of communal wellbeing, there is a chance of making the impacts of the disease (comparatively) less-bad.
                    Thank you. All the best to you. I hope we can get back to arguing about the internal schisms within the democratic party.

                    Here in Sweden the schools are still open and people aregoing to work.

                    The Dutch seem to be going for some kind of semi lockdown and slow infection of the entire population.

                    I agree with you that everyone should just stay home for many weeks*. Cut off all infection routes and let it die out in the immune systems of the various people who have it. Next year we will have vaccine.

                    Have to hand it to catholic Europe, they put the people ahead of the economy.

                    *But will the Netflix servers be able to cope
                    ​​​​​

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                      Report from the retail frontline:

                      Fucking hell. People are morons. They are also rude, selfish, ignorant and several other adjectives.

                      People are addicted to consumerism, and any possibility of it being taken away leads them to have a breakdown. They carry on shopping for stuff they don't and won't need, and are aggressive and confrontational when denied the chance to hoard some more.
                      They are shopping in large groups, spending time browsing the non-essentials like clothing and houseware. These people are completely incapable of following guidance or showing any sort of self-restraint.

                      Meanwhile, on the buses and out in town I would estimate 50% of passengers do not need to be there, especially on the homeward journey, which picks up outside a pub, and the usual crowd of elderly pissheads were volubly debating the government advice that they should modify their behaviour.

                      We need to adopt the Italian authoritarian approach as soon as we can. No measures are too draconian in my opinion. Everybody out on the streets needs to be challenged and sent back home/arrested if they can't come up with a reason why they are out. Because the general public are fucking idiots who can't follow any sort of instruction as it doesn't apply to them.

                      Other than that I had a great first day back at work.

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                        [URL]https://twitter.com/prodnose/status/1239696635933806592[/URL]

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                            Majority of Florida infections were caught while traveling, according to this:

                            [URL]https://twitter.com/PatriciaMazzei/status/1239700236530069504/photo/1[/URL]

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                              My pensioner age parents and my two sisters, one of which has an auto immune condition, are in the Netherlands. I cried when Rutte announced that he's not going for the lock down approach. Then he talked about the importance of supporting the economy.


                              ​​​​

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                                Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post

                                Best case scenario

                                People adhere to short-term lock down for three weeks or so, the virus does not spread and those who have it recover and have the antibodies. With transmission stopped, the virus basically just dies out in its few carriers, and the whole thing is done and dusted in a handful of weeks.

                                (Relatively) Good news is that almost all the disruption we've had has come from people acting responsibly to contain and prevent the spread. This means that society is acting as a society and is willing to accept a degree of pain for the greater good. And that as people (and organisations, and certain governments) are behaving responsibly with an eye of communal wellbeing, there is a chance of making the impacts of the disease (comparatively) less-bad.

                                I really hope that you're on the right track here but I haven't heard anyone suggest that the virus can be terminated in such a way. The only way that you stop a virus or disease propagating is building up the herd immunity. The heavily restrictive social measures should reduce the spread and give the health authorities time to build up their ventilator numbers and supply of PPE but when the restrictions are eased, as they eventually will have to be, numbers will rise again. It's a highly transmissable virus. To travel around the world at the speed it has is almost unprecedented.

                                As for a vaccine, in a year perhaps. Maybe a year-and-a-half or even two.

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                                  Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post


                                  I really hope that you're on the right track here but I haven't heard anyone suggest that the virus can be terminated in such a way. The only way that you stop a virus or disease propagating is building up the herd immunity. The heavily restrictive social measures should reduce the spread and give the health authorities time to build up their ventilator numbers and supply of PPE but when the restrictions are eased, as they eventually will have to be, numbers will rise again. It's a highly transmissable virus. To travel around the world at the speed it has is almost unprecedented.

                                  As for a vaccine, in a year perhaps. Maybe a year-and-a-half or even two.
                                  Vaccine. What about antiviral treatment? Some lads in Belgium managed to cultivate antibodies

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                                    The town next door has tested 31 people.

                                    20 tested positive.

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                                      I'm not convinced that a vaccine is likely given that attempts at creating various cold vaccines, MERS and SARS vaccines have not been successful. But they are testing them and accelerating the process.

                                      NS: I don't think anyone expects that the virus would be wiped out the way I suggested. I'm just saying that it's a best-possible-case scenario. It should theoretically work. The fact that the curves have flattened out in Korea and China suggests that there's something to it. The Koreans are nowhere near herd immunity, and yet their infection rate has collapsed.

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                                        We've bought a Nintendo Switch. See you all in 10-14 weeks. I might even complete a Mario game.

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                                          Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post

                                          Vaccine. What about antiviral treatment? Some lads in Belgium managed to cultivate antibodies

                                          Way above my pay grade, but Wiki is quite informative:


                                          Antiviral


                                          No medication has yet been approved to treat coronavirus infections in humans by the WHO although some are recommended by the Korean and Chinese medical authorities.[139] Trials of many antivirals have been started in COVID-19 including oseltamivir, lopinavir/ritonavir, ganciclovir, favipiravir, baloxavir marboxil, umifenovir, and interferon alfa but currently there are no data to support their use.[140] Korean Health Authorities recommend lopinavir/ritonavir or chloroquine[141] and the Chinese 7th edition guidelines include interferon, lopinavir/ritonavir, ribavirin, chloroquine and/or umifenovir.[142]

                                          Research into potential treatments for the disease was initiated in January 2020, and several antiviral drugs are already in clinical trials.[143][144] Although completely new drugs may take until 2021 to develop,[145] several of the drugs being tested are already approved for other antiviral indications, or are already in advanced testing.[139]

                                          Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the coronavirus in vitro.[93] Remdesivir is being trialled in US and in China.[140]

                                          Preliminary results from a multicentric trial, announced in a press conference and described by Gao, Tian and Yang, suggested that chloroquine is effective and safe in treating COVID-19 associated pneumonia, "improving lung imaging findings, promoting a virus-negative conversion, and shortening the disease course".[94]

                                          Recent studies have demonstrated that initial spike protein priming by transmembrane protease serine 2 (TMPRSS2) is essential for entry of SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV via interaction with the ACE2 receptor.[146][147] These findings suggest that the TMPRSS2 inhibitor Camostat approved for clinical use in Japan for inhibiting fibrosis in liver and kidney disease, postoperative reflux esophagitis and pancreatitis might constitute an effective off-label treatment option.[146]

                                          Passive antibody therapy


                                          Using blood donations from healthy people who have already recovered from COVID-19 holds promise,[148] a strategy which has also been tried for SARS, an earlier cousin of COVID-19.[148] The mechanism of action is that the antibodies naturally produced in the immune systems of those who have already recovered are transferred to people in need of them via a nonvaccine form of immunization.[148] Such convalescent serum therapy (antiserum therapy) is also analogous to the way that hepatitis B immune globulin (HBIG) is used to prevent hepatitis B or human rabies immune globulin (HRIG) is used to treat rabies.[148] Other forms of passive antibody therapy, such as with manufactured monoclonal antibodies, may come later after biopharmaceutical development,[148] but convalescent serum production could be increased for quicker deployment.[149]

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                                            Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                                            I'm not convinced that a vaccine is likely given that attempts at creating various cold vaccines, MERS and SARS vaccines have not been successful. But they are testing them and accelerating the process.

                                            NS: I don't think anyone expects that the virus would be wiped out the way I suggested. I'm just saying that it's a best-possible-case scenario. It should theoretically work. The fact that the curves have flattened out in Korea and China suggests that there's something to it. The Koreans are nowhere near herd immunity, and yet their infection rate has collapsed.

                                            Yes, but it's such early days in the outbreak, SB. If there is no re-emergence of the virus when both countries loosen restrictions I'll be encouraged, but that's yet to be tested.

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                                              Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                                              I'm not convinced that a vaccine is likely given that attempts at creating various cold vaccines, MERS and SARS vaccines have not been successful. But they are testing them and accelerating the process.

                                              NS: I don't think anyone expects that the virus would be wiped out the way I suggested. I'm just saying that it's a best-possible-case scenario. It should theoretically work. The fact that the curves have flattened out in Korea and China suggests that there's something to it. The Koreans are nowhere near herd immunity, and yet their infection rate has collapsed.
                                              But those countries are in very effective lockdowns. That will suppress the spread. The test is not flatlining during this period, it is the infection rate not gradually building back up and then exploding again as soon as they try and ease restrictions. Viral infections often go in waves like this as an initial infection peak causes people to modify their behaviour, then they revert to normal life once they think it is over. cf. the archetypal example of Spanish flu, which peaked three times.

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                                                My best mate was told to lose 80% of his staff today. His bar is now five days a week, staffed by management only. This is heartbreaking.

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                                                  Originally posted by EIM View Post
                                                  My best mate was told to lose 80% of his staff today. His bar is now five days a week, staffed by management only. This is heartbreaking.

                                                  I feel for you and him.

                                                  Sunak is going to announce additional business support measures tomorrow. Macron has pledged EUR300bn support for French businesses and said that none need go bankrupt. Let's see how we measure up.

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