Covid-19 pandemic

[Patrick Thistle]

Another colleague of mine is self isolating with symptoms and her husband has tested positive.

[ChrisJ]

50,000 signatures on the petition to let people buy non-essential stuff in supermarkets. Fucking snowflakes. Surely you can get by for 2 weeks without buying a shit t-shirt from Tesco.

If you've got kids and the TV or the microwave or kettle goes you might feel you need it more urgently. Or you have school uniform problems. (Most secondary schools are very hardline on what can be worn. No uniform, no education.) Plus the confusion and panic caused by Tesco (incorrectly) tweeting it couldn't sell sanitary products. I know you can get stuff online now but allowing that doesn't protect local "non-essential" retailers either.

I mean I see why they did it, and I sympathise, but the lines drawn between essential/not are somewhat arbitrary. You could argue clothing is more essential than alcohol, biscuits or chocolate. It's a tricky one. Might have been better to allow retailers to sell what they want - by click and collect if their premises were closed.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Now it's become discretionary.

A good idea but unenforceable and only ever going to lead to complaints and bad press.

[ChrisJ]

A good idea but unenforceable and only ever going to lead to complaints and bad press.

Yeah, this. It needed more nuance maybe, and advance explanation. 50,000 is a lot of people in Wales. It would be like 900,000 signing in England.

[Sporting]

Or you have school uniform problems. (Most secondary schools are very hardline on what can be worn. No uniform, no education.)

A(nother) good argument against school uniform

[Fussbudget]

That petition depresses the shit out of me. I mean, I know this whole thing is hard on everyone, there is no end in sight, people are fed up and coping in any way they can, but still. Of all the things to take a stand on.

[ooh aah]

Yeah, I don't have a lot of sympathy, it was known at least a week before that a lockdown was coming, (I knew, and I'm in Malaysia ffs) and official notice was given 5 days in advance, was it not? People had time to get these less essential items, and they chose not to, and are now complaining.

[Patrick Thistle]

ChrisJ the way people are carrying on, though, you'd think there were police monitoring the check outs. FWIW the electrical goods aisle in my Asda was open on Saturday. George clothing was shut and apparently the make up aisle was off limits. You could still buy toys, magazines etc. So this wasn't enforced equally, There's a lad who has been arrested for going into a supermarket on Anglesey and taking it upon himself to rip down the barriers blocking off non-essential items. And lots of news about a guy in Newport going to Tesco in his pants to "prove a point" about clothing being non-essential. How much of that is genuine protest and how much is just people being dicks and acting up for viral notoriety, I don't know.

It feels like the outrage has been fomented by the press as a means of attacking Welsh Government, which is the directive from Tory HQ and has been for years. The lines from Welsh Tories and the headlines in the press have been virtually identical. This is over-reach by power-mad socialists and that's the narrative now. I've said from the off it was a misstep by Welsh Government. They would have gained a lot more by not imposing it and asking people to be sensible and responsible, which generally people have been. There has been very little objection to the principle of the fire break even by the Tories.

Also, worth noting the ban on non-essential items was supported by the Conservative shadow economy minister in the Senedd initially, for protecting independent businesses, until there was political mileage to be made and then it became terrible and quick, find people who will talk to a Daily Mail journalist.

(Also, on the school uniform front the fire break coincides with the half term holiday and older children are having an extra week out of school (virtual classes) so that's less of an issue. Some schools have even suspended uniform requirements since the kids went back in September in recognition of difficult times. I don't know how common that is.)

[Jimski]

Surely essential is defined by whether shops that sell *only* that type of item are allowed to stay open? Which seems fair to me.

[Patrick Thistle]

That's the problem. They wanted hardware shops to close. But supermarkets sell tools. They wanted clothing shops to close. But supermarkets sell clothes. They wanted bookshops, record shops, etc to close, but... well you get the idea.

So they said, look, to make it "fair" we are going to tell the supermarkets they can't sell these things. Which was the wrong thing to do as a) if you normally buy your clothes in Tesco you would do that anyway regardless of whether other shops are open, and b) it handed the initiative over to their critics who needed something to distract from the dumpster fire that was the vote on free school meals.

[Patrick Thistle]

For the record, Wales has reported over 1000 new cases for the umpteenth day in a row and six more deaths today.

[Hot Pepsi]

All the shops here are more or less open and maybe I am naive, but it seems like if people wear masks and don't stay too long or get too crowded, the risk is very low.

[Snake Plissken]

The president of Fox News and four Fox anchors have been advised to quarantine after travelling on a flight with someone who tested positive.

[Fussbudget]

All the shops here are more or less open and maybe I am naive, but it seems like if people wear masks and don't stay too long or get too crowded, the risk is very low.

I assume closing shops is more about stopping transmission to and between staff members than to the general public. If you've got a large segment of the population sat at home instead of being at work in a shop with a bunch of colleagues that's a lot of potential clusters avoided.

[Patrick Thistle]

OK, the last line is American. But substitute Trump for Boris

[Patrick Thistle]

I assume closing shops is more about stopping transmission to and between staff members than to the general public. If you've got a large segment of the population sat at home instead of being at work in a shop with a bunch of colleagues that's a lot of potential clusters avoided.

Yeah, that's one of the drivers. Also they want everyone to stay home and a lot of people go shopping because they are bored.

[Hot Pepsi]

I assume closing shops is more about stopping transmission to and between staff members than to the general public. If you've got a large segment of the population sat at home instead of being at work in a shop with a bunch of colleagues that's a lot of potential clusters avoided.

I don't think there have been a lot of breakouts in stores, have there? If it's possible to keep a grocery store reasonably safe, it's possible to do it for a Target, let alone much smaller shops.

[Fussbudget]

Really? There have been lots of outbreaks among supermarket staff here, it seems to be one of the riskiest jobs there is.

[Jimski]

That's the problem. They wanted hardware shops to close. But supermarkets sell tools. They wanted clothing shops to close. But supermarkets sell clothes. They wanted bookshops, record shops, etc to close, but... well you get the idea.

So they said, look, to make it "fair" we are going to tell the supermarkets they can't sell these things. Which was the wrong thing to do as a) if you normally buy your clothes in Tesco you would do that anyway regardless of whether other shops are open, and b) it handed the initiative over to their critics who needed something to distract from the dumpster fire that was the vote on free school meals.

But you could see why clothes shops (etc.) would be annoyed to be forced to close if supermarkets were still allowed to sell clothes.

[Patrick Thistle]

Well exactly. Hence the ban. But the Welsh Government were going to get bashed either way. They were either killing independent retail or preventing people from buying emergency swimsuits at 2am.

[Jimski]

Indeed, so I suspect they chose the right path.

[Hot Pepsi]

Really? There have been lots of outbreaks among supermarket staff here, it seems to be one of the riskiest jobs there is.

I know there were a few of those here early on, but I'm not sure how it's gone since masking became a lot more common.


I just feel like there's only so much locking down you can do before too many people just lose their shit and aren't willing to follow any precautions at all which is even worse than suboptimal precautions. Maybe Wales isn't there yet, but we seem to have passed that point months ago so now the best we can hope for is to increase masking and the six feet thing and, hopefully, do something about some of the mass gatherings like student parties.*

And those people in those jobs need their jobs. Our government isn't going to rescue them. They need their health too, of course, but it's just hopeless now here everywhere except New northern England.




*We've discovered that the students here are insisting on having big parties for the football games, even though there's no attendance allowed at the games themselves other than family and the team is, based on the evidence from the first game, terrible this year. We had the same problem for the Arts Festival. There was no arts festival this summer, (well, it was "online" which is hardly a substitute) but a whole bunch of people still decided to show up that weekend and try to pack the bars downtown.

I don't think it's the majority of students or even a large minority. But there are a few hundred to a few thousand who just insist on being assholes about this. Trumpism has something to do with it, but mostly it's just the routine problem with young people and their inability to understand risk or thinking about the big picture. Of course, it's just creating more animosity and divisiveness both within the and the wider community. This is just a very bad time and it's not going to get any better for a long time.

[Patrick Thistle]

I agree with your point there, HP, about people reaching their limits. That's why 50,000 people have signed a petition demanding to buy all the shit they want to in supermarkets.

[Patrick Thistle]

Just in case anyone is wondering why the right wing media are throwing shade at the power mad socialists in Wales...

[Satchmo Distel]

Iain Lee's mother has tested positive.

https://twitter.com/iainlee/status/1320691416499146752