The Green Party - time for reflection

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

I would hope most readers on here would have immediately recognised wingco's OP as a caricature by analogy, seeking to ridicule the idea that Labour should meaningfully alter their policies for electoral gain by putting forward, implictly by way of absurd comparison, a hypothetical abandonment by the Greens of their fundamental green values. Very neatly done, and gives some pause for thought, but of very limited persuasive value to me, because:

(a) unlike the Greens, whose functional value in our system like that of other small parties, is largely by way of being a pressure group, influencing the agenda and putting pressure on others to move in your direction, Labour's main functional value would be as a party of government and so it has a responsibility, unlike the Greens, to be electable into government and

(b) the policy changes which by the centrist wing of Labour seeks to make from Corbyn's policies don't involve fundamental departures from traditional Labour values.

Labour doesn't need to become populist or right wing. But it does clearly have a lot to learn if it gives high priority (which it absolutely should) to getting into government asap.

[pebblethefish]

Good discussion, this but I must stress that when I wrote the OP I didn’t have the Green Party in mind at all.

Do subsequent posts have to follow the intent of the original?? Blimey, I've really been getting this board wrong.

[pebblethefish]

.

[Duncan Gardner]

Wingco: point taken, but remember that when you're explaining you're (still) losing

Patrick: again, I got the Orwell reference but apart from him being ancient history I don't have much time for the 'why don't you middle-class do-gooders get down to the coalface' argument as per threads passim

EEG: the responsibility for both LibDems and Greens isn't significantly different from Labour"s, partic with the Tory winning margin so large. That responsibility is to oppose effectively- I think that would be best achieved by working together

[Stumpy Pepys]

Nah, that's not how it works. it's not about how much the reusable bag costs, it's There are just way fewer bags used overall. We were the first to introduce this back in 2002, and We went from using a billion plastic bags a year, to under a hundred million, almost overnight. The number has wobbled a bit, and has gradually trended downwards, but they used to give you plastic bags at even the slightest excuse. It's not so much that people are using reusable bags, it's that they're not getting a plastic bag to carry just a loaf of bread or a pint of milk.

That wasn't my point--it was the total energy input used to produce the reusable bag, compared to the plastic one. In terms of carbon footprint, the reusable cotton bags are the worst of the lot.

You have to use a cotton bag about 200 times to match the energy costs of taking home a free plastic bag on each of those trips.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Ah I get you, but this isn't really primarily an energy saving measure, it's primarily a litter issue. There is an energy saving from going from 350 bags per person per year, to 14, but it's fairly trivial in the scheme of things, there used to be plastic bags in every hedge and ditch in this country, but that's gone way way down.

[DCI Harry Batt]

So GPEW follows the usual Green party trajectory and drops its opposition to NATO.

Ah well.

[Gas In Name Only]

So GPEW follows the usual Green party trajectory and drops its opposition to NATO.

Ah well.

Given that they're constantly winning council by-elections in weird suburban and rural parts of the SE of England and hope to take control of Mid Suffolk in May, it's not really a surprise that this is the direction. Tories on bikes

[Etienne]

Right, all the other motions passed in conference were indistinguishable from the Tories.

Christ, the Green Party aren't perfect and it's perfectly reasonable to criticise the NATO shift, but that's laughable.

[Lang Spoon]

"weird suburban" was fucked as well. Imagine winning those awful people over!

[Patrick Thistle]

Sometimes when old threads get resurrected I read back through and realise anew that there are days when I'm a twat.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Haha, me too PT.

[Toby Gymshorts]

Sometimes when old threads get resurrected I read back through and realise there are days when I'm a twat.

Better that than waking up to a thread where your twattery has been discussed at length in your absence. I am thinking of one specific instance of my own (drunken) twattery which I then apologised for.

It's not stopped me, like.

[Patrick Thistle]

Haha, me too PT.

What, you read through and also realise there are days when I'm a twat?

It's a fair criticism.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Hahahahaha.

[Gas In Name Only]

As a resident of a somewhat weird suburban area, I apologise for offending all the Compost Tories on the thread

[JoeysToe]

[Etienne]

It's too ludicrous to be offensive.