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The 2020 OTF Weight Loss Intention & Mutual Support Thread

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    Status update
    Week ending Weight (kg) Walked (km) Climbed (flights of stairs)
    Jan 05 78.7 056 059
    Jan 12 78.5 078 145
    Jan 19 78.3 100 159
    Jan 26 77.4 104 165
    Feb 02 76.7 112 146
    Feb 09 76.4 067 163
    Feb 16 78.2 075 038
    Feb 23 77.8 088 132
    Mar 01 77.7 053 136
    Mar 08 77.6 076 167
    Mar 15 76.6 100 105
    Mar 22 76.8 122 045
    Mar 29 77.0 124 039
    Apr 05 76.7 101 032
    Apr 12 76.6 059 020
    Apr 19 75.9 037 015
    Apr 26 75.9 067 022
    May 03 76.0 088 054


























    One more kilo to go.

    Comment


      Wouter D - a very scientific way of doing things! Data captured by a pedometer, right? You are not counting each flight of stairs up in your head, I presume. How long is a typical 'flight'? If it's an excessively long one with sections, like the Potemkin Steps, do you count them as separate flights given each one is about the same is an 'average' set?

      I'm going graphical, myself. See:-



      What that shows is that my weight has now dipped under the red line that indicates a BMI of 25. In fact it did it yesterday, and it's still there today. It also shows what my rate of weight loss (i.e. the gradient of the trendline) has been, and and given how close to the trendline I'm staying what it still is. And that is above the recommended maximum of 1kg/week. 177.9g/day, which is what it is showing = 1.25kg/week. This is despite me staying above the NHS online BMI calculator's recommended daily calories for my age/weight/gender/activity level, which is 1956-2515kcal per day to lose weight, with the advice being to stay at the bottom end of this band to lose a kilo per week. My personal target has been 2050-2100 per day (which, given that the recommended average adult intake is 2000, is hardly starvation rations!), something I have been managing to basically hold fast to.*
      What the graph doesn't show is the amount of exercise I'm doing, which probably explains the rate being too high. For example in the last complete week (Mon 27/4 to Sun 3/5) I clocked 96m36s of running (~12.2 miles) and also 1h50 of walking on Sunday over an unmeasured distance estimated to be roughly 9 miles, give or take a mile or two! The NHS calculator has it's top exercise level as 'Active' with this being up to 150 mins exercise per week. I'm doing more than that of hard exercise - there is another at least 45 mins per day of gentle stuff that also counts and clearly is taking me over the top of 'active'. For the record, 10 minutes on a balance board and 35 minutes of stretching, the later that I go through twice a day on a weekend and once per day midweek. I think I would count as 'Very Active', i.e. a category higher than the online calc doesn't have. I probably should actually be in 2150-2200kcal range per day. Soon enough, I guess.
      This also speaks to what my calorie consumption is likely to need to be for stability, i.e. the close off of this process. Again, I've read somewhere that the NHS calculator is attempting to get people to achieve a calorie deficit of 800 per day for their 1kg/week weight loss. Also available online are Basal Metabolic Rate calculators that predict the intake you will need to maintain stable weights. When I run through these they tend to tell me I'll require 2900-3050kcals at my activity level. If so, that and the NHS data implies I've been running a 1000kcal deficit (assuming that the NHS' -800kcals per day = -1.0 kg/week scales linearly to -1.25 kg/week = -1000kcals per day, which is a big assumption) and that my target consumption will indeed be 3050 at the end of the tapering up of consumption.

      The graph also doesn't show the run times. Lunchtime today I did my 5k course again. Time was 23m20, which is pretty well 7m30 pace dead sustained for that period. Again, getting quicker each week as the weight goes and the fitness improves.

      * - since Monday last week the range has been 2014 - 2149 (2078 ± 36 would be the way I would prefer to express it as I get all scientific on yo' asses (that is average ± one standard deviation). Yesterday was a typical day. The menu ran:-

      Breakfast
      100g Yoghurt (natural, low fat)
      1/2 punnet blueberries
      25g granola
      small glass (150ml) orange juice
      cup of tea w/ semi-skimmed milk

      Lunch - from the grab&go at work
      Pre-packed Ham & Tomato Sandwich on granary
      BBQ Hula Hoops
      Granny Smith
      1 Lindt chocolate (because all the bars had run out by the time I got there!)
      1 glass orange squash (no added sugar variety)

      Snack**
      Peanut butter sandwich on white

      Dinner
      Spaghetti with homemade pancetta & pea sauce (100g of pasta, parmesan and sour cream in the sauce and additional parmesan sprinkled on top)
      Salad (lettuce, cucumber, olives, piquant peppers) w/ ceasar salad dressing
      1 glass of sparkling flavoured water (again diet variety)

      2058 calories the lot

      As I said, written down that looks like a lot of food. How I might add up to 1000kcal a day on top is almost bemusing. It's a whole extra meal and then some! It also begs the question of how much (or what) was I eating to get to nearly 90kg in the first place!

      ** - always eaten as the post run/main exercise protein/carb boost. Pro athletes take some horrible carb and protein mix drink with no fat at all in it to do this. I am not a pro athlete. If I want a carb/protein boost, a peanut butter sandwich is perfect. Or a cheddar cheese one occasionally. Today it was a egg and cress sandwich, because there were sandwiches left over in the grab-and-go at 5pm yesterday that went out of date before our office reopens on Tuesday (we all have Monday off as well as an bonus holiday), and our kitchen's preferred and first explored option of donating them to a local homelessness charity has been stymied for health and safety reasons - apparently you can't give away out-of-date or soon to be out-of-date food as a company and not be liable if someone gets ill eating it. But employees can opt to take those risks for themselves and take them home. So I did that (Roast Beef tomorrow).
      Last edited by Janik; 08-05-2020, 14:25.

      Comment


        I imagine Wouter's watch counts them. It is typically based on an altimeter, so it is really any up and down (hill walks = stairs to a watch).

        Comment


          I do have a fitbit, yeah, but I noticed it severely overestimates the number of flights of stairs. So I count them and manually maintain a tally in my smartphone.

          My office is on the seventh floor, so if I walk up the stairs I just add seven to the total. If floors are not explicitly indicated, then I go by the rule of thumb that 13 steps = 1 flight, which is true in the average Dutch house.

          Comment


            Yup, there speaks a scientist. ;-)

            Comment


              Oh, lesson learned - and don't get taken in by begging and give some of your dinner to the cat. He had two (small!) bits of my streak, ate one, chewed the other a little and then left it. I had cooked it as good as I have ever done (though I made twice as much mushroom sauce as required - still perfecting), it was really nice and some of it was going to waste! I ended up staring at mournfully at what he had left. But no, can't, hopefully the moggy will find it and eat it later tonight. The ungrateful cur.

              Comment


                I got too cocky and baked too many desserts and bumped myself up to 64.5kg last week (BMI 26.4).

                So, I've started following slimming world guidelines again, and this time my husband is trying to join in as well.

                Down to 63.5kg this morning (BMI 26).

                I'm going to rejoin a virtual version of slimming world in the evenings (half-price currently) to keep me on track.

                Comment


                  I managed to get down to my lowest weight in 2020 today, 12st 8 1/4lbs, which puts me back in the healthy BMI range. That's a shade under a stone that I've lost since the start of the year, (and that New Year's Day figure wasn't actually a post-Christmas high/low point - I'd actually lost a few pounds in the preceding weeks).

                  I set myself a target in the opening post of this thread of 12st by the year's half-way point. To achieve it would only mean losing just over a pound a week between now and then, so I might go for it, but I'm happy with the way things are going as they are, really. My weight loss has been very gradual but very consistent (Jan. 2 1/2 lbs, Feb. 2 1/2 lbs, Mar. 3 1/4lbs, April 3 1/4lbs, May 2lbs so far) which, given that I haven't made any dramatic changes to my diet and exercise levels, isn't really that surprising. But this thread is all about support and it's worth pointing out that while some are going great guns with quite major fitness initiatives, and all power to them, it's possible to make decent progress just by taking a few more walks and forgoing the cheese and pickle sandwich of a cold evening and having a warm drink instead.

                  Comment


                    A back pain that has prevented me from doing any running lately, as well as the increased amount of time spent at home during the lockdown has all but undone the good work I put in earleir this year. The weight is around 80 kgs, and not the 78 I had aimed for and did reach in February. Still, I am two kilos down on my New Year weight, so it is not all gloom and doom.

                    Comment


                      Well done all.

                      My trip to london over the weekend and getting a takeaway from my favourite Turkish restaurant (The Kervan Special) caused me to put on half a stone of weight
                      It took me about three days to eat it, but damn it was worth it.

                      https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/me...ae/platter.jpg
                      Still not able to run, went out twice last week and still have alot of calf pain.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
                        My weight loss has been very gradual but very consistent (Jan. 2 1/2 lbs, Feb. 2 1/2 lbs, Mar. 3 1/4lbs, April 3 1/4lbs, May 2lbs so far) which, given that I haven't made any dramatic changes to my diet and exercise levels, isn't really that surprising. But this thread is all about support and it's worth pointing out that while some are going great guns with quite major fitness initiatives, and all power to them, it's possible to make decent progress just by taking a few more walks and forgoing the cheese and pickle sandwich of a cold evening and having a warm drink instead.
                        Oh, absolutely. It isn't a competition to see who can lose weight the fastest. And even if it was, more rapid ≠ better as it should be measured over the long term. What everyone is seeking is sustainable weight loss. And that is very individual. If your one fewer cheese and pickle sandwich diet is doing that (and it looks like it is as totting up you have dropped moreorless a stone in four-and-a-half months) and that is something you can maintain afterwards then all power to your elbow. Your regime succeeds for you, which is all that matters. And actually, given that a homemade cheese-and-pickle sandwich is ~300 calories give or take, just cutting snacking like that out ought to achieve something like what you are making it achieve. A 300 calorie per day deficit being one of the recommended paths to head down.

                        My quicker rate of loss is as much about certain aspects of my personality traits - the love of exercise and the science-y bent. I'm effectively conducting an experiment on my body. I'm intrigued by how the calories input matches to weight and exercise and trying to measure that in a controlled(ish) way. Which is meaning no deviations from my calorie targets per day as that would screw up the test. Which just happens to be a great way of staying on track. The quicker rate is also good in that it provides constant positive feedback that the diet is working; ~90% of the time my weight at my daily weighing session has equal to or less than that of the day before. Most days it has been 0.1 or 0.2kg lower. Again that sort of "do this, get that" evidence makes it much easier to shout down the voice that says 'fuck it, have a cookie!'* with another saying 'do that, and tomorrow morning it won't be 0.1kg down but 0.2kg up!'.
                        And which is why I tipped the scales at 77.0kg this (well now technically yesterday) morning (and also despite Admiral HORN's disturbing lack of faith at the start of May that I would get there now). This weekend was exactly when I expected to reach that weight. I'm now only 2kg from my targeted weight of 75kg. I'm entirely confident I could reach that in two more weeks staying on the same diet/exercise routine (I took my own advice of last week and upped the intake to 2200kcal per day).
                        But this comes back to the sustainable thing - if I did simply continue losing 1kg/week, and then tried to increase my calories straight up to ~2700 or whatever when I weighed 75kg then what would come next is fairly predictable; my body would react to suddenly getting an extra 500kcal per day by turning most of the additional input into emergency energy storage. Or 'fat cells', as they are otherwise known. It would then react later in the day to the amount it had leftover from my intake after making it's new fat being insufficient to power itself through the day by breaking down whatever was to hand to release energy - some fat, some muscle. Effectively this would swap muscle for fat. That would be bad for a number of reasons, like putting inches right back on the waistline.
                        So now I move on to phase 2 of my plan instead, which is a gradual increase in the calories per day whilst maintaining activity levels at a constant. That will hopefully be matched by an equally gradual decrease in the rate of weight loss.
                        Phase 3 would then be to try and figure out the intake needed to maintain the weight at where it's meant to be. I'm not on to that one yet.

                        NocSub's way of doing things, which is effectively to chop a small percentage out of the diet and slowly let the body reduce in size until the average daily output = reduced average daily input (a larger/heavier body needs more calories to run), could be seen as already being in that phase 2. And is a rather simpler approach.

                        * - I also appear to be rather fortunate in that cravings and hunger disappeared within the first week or so.
                        Last edited by Janik; 16-05-2020, 23:55.

                        Comment


                          PB on my 5k running course as well today/yesterday. But still only just under 7m30/mile pace (23'10" for the loop, which is 7m26s/mile apparently). Getting it down to 7 minutes flat per mile, which is where I would like to be on that metric, is going to take quite a while I think.

                          Comment


                            Good comments about losing weight Janik, however a couple of things.
                            Upping your calorie intake may not necessarily mean you will automatically put on fat. There is a school of thought that catting your calories intake over a prolonged period can be detrimental to weight loss as your body will go into "Starvation mode" an evolutionary trait that was pretty beneficial for human populations when food availability was seasonal but not so good in the modern sedetary lifestyle we live in.
                            This is why most diets fail and you eventually end up putting the weight back on and more.

                            My advice is to continue eating, if you cut down the mass of food, your body will panic and try and conserve as much as it can and will actively attempt to store as fat and will prioritise burning muscle as a food source in the first instance.

                            A key indicator of this is moodiness, lack of concentration, general tiredness and a lack of motivation. See it like this, the 10Kg you have lost is the equivalent of taking off the 10Kg rucksack that you have been carrying around with you 24/7 for ages. If taking it off doesn't make you feel stronger, faster and lighter on your feet, then something is definitely wrong.

                            Again, focus on the quality of the weight loss and not the quantity. The mirror will tell as good as story as the bathroom scales.

                            Also, the most important factor is what you are eating, have less more often, prepare your own food, stay off takeaways.

                            Comment


                              Managed to get down to my target weight of 13'7 (189lb) on Saturday morning, however, i had noticed my legs were looking very thin, I have never had big legs due to my genetics.
                              The muscle loss had been down to a lack of running due to the bad calf strain I had (only back to very gentle running last week) and I had only been doing short walks with my 32kg weighted vest.

                              I am still feeling good physically and have not been this light since before 2013 (when I stopped playing 11 a side. I am even contemplating going down to a flat 13 stone (182lb/82.5kg which is the lightest i have been since around 2007.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                                A few questions. I believe I met you a while ago and I remeber you being older than me, what is you age range?
                                Are you currently doing a weight loss program or you just wasting away muscle?

                                That might help me give you a more personal answer.



                                Glad I can help. The good thing about this exercise is you can easily gauge your fitness and improvements as you up the intensity. Also by keeping it short you don't really get into a rhythm whereby your body can coast along and not burn much energy.
                                Gym got closed down so went back to walking every day. Kept the weight off and back into clothes I had thought I'd never fit into again. Getting a decentish bike again (arrives next week) so will keep things moving.

                                Comment


                                  I've managed to claw back another 0.7kg, so I'm down to 62.8kg or a BMI of 25.7.

                                  Haven't got round to rejoining slimming world virtually yet. I keep forgetting when it is. But simple adjustments to cooking and snacking, plus upping my exercise levels a little, seems to be helping.

                                  The rules of slimming world that actually work are: eat loads of vegetables with every meal. At least one third to a half of the plate should be vegetables. Snack on fruit and raw vegetables instead of crap like crisps or chocolate. Avoid bread like the plague. If you absolutely must have some, have one small slice of wholemeal bread maybe two or three times a week. Only have small measured amounts of oils and cheese. You can have unlimited fat free Greek yoghurt and plain carbohydrates like pasta, rice, cous cous (preferably wholemeal, but any is fine). Eat the simplest versions of protein, not processed stuff. So plain eggs, plain tofu, Quorn pieces, Quorn mince, chicken breasts, plain fish, beans, lentils, etc, are all fine, but you can't go around eating frankfurters and streaky bacon, or Quorn escalopes with breadcrumbs and mozzarella and pesto. To make food interesting, add herbs and spices and tomato passata, garlic, onions and ginger, not packet or jar sauces or cream or butter. If you want to speed up weight loss, do an occasional day without the carbohydrates, just proteins, vegetables and low-sugar fruits (e.g. not mango, banana or grapes).

                                  They pretend that there are loads of other complex rules so that people keep paying to go, but that is the essence of it.
                                  ​​​​​​

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Uncle Ethan View Post

                                    Gym got closed down so went back to walking every day. Kept the weight off and back into clothes I had thought I'd never fit into again. Getting a decentish bike again (arrives next week) so will keep things moving.
                                    Keep it up my man,

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
                                      Good comments about losing weight Janik, however a couple of things.
                                      Upping your calorie intake may not necessarily mean you will automatically put on fat. There is a school of thought that catting your calories intake over a prolonged period can be detrimental to weight loss as your body will go into "Starvation mode" an evolutionary trait that was pretty beneficial for human populations when food availability was seasonal but not so good in the modern sedetary lifestyle we live in.
                                      This is why most diets fail and you eventually end up putting the weight back on and more.

                                      My advice is to continue eating, if you cut down the mass of food, your body will panic and try and conserve as much as it can and will actively attempt to store as fat and will prioritise burning muscle as a food source in the first instance.

                                      A key indicator of this is moodiness, lack of concentration, general tiredness and a lack of motivation. See it like this, the 10Kg you have lost is the equivalent of taking off the 10Kg rucksack that you have been carrying around with you 24/7 for ages. If taking it off doesn't make you feel stronger, faster and lighter on your feet, then something is definitely wrong.
                                      True. Right at the start I was overdoing the calorie cut (under 1750-1800 per day) and at that point I must have been edging into starvation mode. I was running out of energy and motivation on runs, failing to complete ones that I had managed to slog through at the very start when weighing close to 90kg. Fortunately my sister's other half is a jogger and he identified the same thing as you - I was going too far in limiting the intake and not in a healthy position. So I jumped up to ~2050 calories/day. Since then the feeling stronger, faster, lighter thing has been absolutely true, and the poor sleep I had been having (also, I believe, a side effect indication starvation mode) has disapeared. Now I feel bouncy and full of energy both generally and when I run (for the first mile or two at least!), and there is no thought of stopping midway round. OK, only a few thoughts of 'why don't I just stop?!?' [/honesty] Hence today pushing the distance out the furthest yet - 8k, which is a shade under 5 miles. Which I've just done 39m40, those handful of seconds under 40 minutes enough to keep the average pace just under 8 mins per mile. I don't think I could manage that if my body was in emergency energy store mode.

                                      I think the fact the weight loss hadn't slowed previously shows I was further overweight at ~89kk than I really thought. I used to tell myself that 80kg was my 'fighting weight' (not in the proper sense of that term but meaning a good trim shape personally) and that is what I should aim for. Clearly not! If I have such a thing it's probably another 10kg down or so. But as a man is his early 40s who is not and never going to be a professional athlete, there is absolutely no call to be at my absolute optimum weight for fitness and power. 75kg will do just fine, with a little bit of fat left around the tummy still.*

                                      * - I still have a 'spare tyre' around my midriff now. It's just that it's gone from a car tyre three months ago to a racing bike tyre!

                                      Comment


                                        The other thing my sister's other half told me was to eat something within 30 minutes of finishing a run. Not necessarily a full meal, but something. A couple of hundred calories or more will do. Again, I believe this is associated with the same thing of the body looking to replenish what it had spent, and if it can't making stores. Basically it expects calories from a successful hunt and if the hunt was unsuccesful it makes adjustments so another can be undertaken soon.

                                        I had heard the same (about the need for a quick re-fuel, not about it being a hunting issue!) from a couple of other sources - one of the coaches at my Hockey club, who recommended a snack with protein and carbs within 20-30 mins of finishing training or a workout and anecdotally second-hand from a rower, who apparently swore by honey sandwiches. Those sound carb heavy and protein light, though my effort today is going the same way a bit - my usual peanut butter sandwich has been replaced by a houmous and crunchy vegetable wrap that I liberated from work on Friday afternoon as it's Best Before date was yesterday and it would have got thrown out. It is very nice... but my lips are all tingly now from the spicy tortilla it was wrapped in!

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Balderdasha View Post
                                          I've managed to claw back another 0.7kg, so I'm down to 62.8kg or a BMI of 25.7.

                                          Haven't got round to rejoining slimming world virtually yet. I keep forgetting when it is. But simple adjustments to cooking and snacking, plus upping my exercise levels a little, seems to be helping.

                                          The rules of slimming world that actually work are: eat loads of vegetables with every meal. At least one third to a half of the plate should be vegetables. Snack on fruit and raw vegetables instead of crap like crisps or chocolate. Avoid bread like the plague. If you absolutely must have some, have one small slice of wholemeal bread maybe two or three times a week. Only have small measured amounts of oils and cheese. You can have unlimited fat free Greek yoghurt and plain carbohydrates like pasta, rice, cous cous (preferably wholemeal, but any is fine). Eat the simplest versions of protein, not processed stuff. So plain eggs, plain tofu, Quorn pieces, Quorn mince, chicken breasts, plain fish, beans, lentils, etc, are all fine, but you can't go around eating frankfurters and streaky bacon, or Quorn escalopes with breadcrumbs and mozzarella and pesto. To make food interesting, add herbs and spices and tomato passata, garlic, onions and ginger, not packet or jar sauces or cream or butter. If you want to speed up weight loss, do an occasional day without the carbohydrates, just proteins, vegetables and low-sugar fruits (e.g. not mango, banana or grapes).

                                          They pretend that there are loads of other complex rules so that people keep paying to go, but that is the essence of it.
                                          Quite. Actually, I think you can simplify that even further. You need to eat an appropriate overall mass of food to not feel hungry (as TG allude to) whilst not taking in too many calories doing it. All the stuff you identify like frankfurters and streaky bacon, readymade sauces or cream and butter are high in calories per gram. If you include these in your diet in more than token amounts and eat enough to fill up, you take in too many calories. And don't lose weight as a result.

                                          Comment


                                            That's all great to hear, Janik. I'd offer one minor piece of advice, which I'm happy to be corrected on. Don't assume that the existence of a, albeit diminishing, spare tyre around the waist is indicative of any sort of major fitness issue. The gut is the first area most of us look to when judging whether we have weight issues, absent actually getting on the scales, but when I was at my absolutely fittest when in my 20s and playing sport all the time, I still had flab around my middle.

                                            My last weigh-in saw me at 12st 7lbs on the nose, so that's over 1st lost since the start of the year. Pleasing but there's still a fair bit more that I could be doing in terms of exercise and the healthiness of the food I'm eating.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by Janik View Post
                                              I was running out of energy and motivation on runs, failing to complete ones that I had managed to slog through at the very start when weighing close to 90kg.
                                              This isn't really diet or directly weight related, but this line made me think of a blog that the owner and main coach at my gym posted the other day, about having the same feeling and why he shifted his training out from only running and into a much more strength focused program. (A little bit of it is a sales pitch at the end, for which I apologise, but I think the advice is very good)

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
                                                That's all great to hear, Janik. I'd offer one minor piece of advice, which I'm happy to be corrected on. Don't assume that the existence of a, albeit diminishing, spare tyre around the waist is indicative of any sort of major fitness issue. The gut is the first area most of us look to when judging whether we have weight issues, absent actually getting on the scales, but when I was at my absolutely fittest when in my 20s and playing sport all the time, I still had flab around my middle.
                                                I completely agree. That is what the 'not a professional athlete' bit was alluding to. If you are one of those then some flab on the tummy is a bad thing and likely to get you yelled at by your coach, unless they throw their hands up and walk away from such a dilettante. As an ordinary person, even an active one, it isn't an issue. You can be simultaneously healthy and have some belly fat. If I hit my target weight of 75kg and can still 'pinch an inch' around my waist, then so be it. 75kg is appropriate for me, the shape it comes with is what it is.

                                                Comment


                                                  Further to the idea that it's the calories per gram that matters and not just the calories in total, I used to consider a sandwich/crisps/bar/piece of fruit lunch as a light one. Why? Because I barely felt full after consuming that. And indeed that is what I ate at work today due to a lack of options (there is talk of re-opening our canteen for takeaways in a week or two, but for now we are on pre-packed food). It was roughly 350g in total (~160g for the sandwich, ~30g for the crisps, ~40g for the bar and ~120g for the apple). But it was also ~850 calories. Of which the apple, >1/3 of the total weight, contributed <10% of the energy. And apples are pieces of sweet fruit!
                                                  Compare that to my breakfast this morning, which was low fat greek yoghurt with half a punnet of blueberries and a serving of granola, plus a piece of toast with low fat spread and marmite, and that provided quite a similar quantity of food (~310g) for a fraction under half the calories (~420). Indicative of how disastrous all those off-the-shelf options are. Which comes back to lifestyle and having the ability/time to prepare food rather than just relying on grabbing something readymade and going on.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by Janik View Post
                                                    my breakfast this morning, which was low fat greek yoghurt with half a punnet of blueberries and a serving of granola, plus a piece of toast with low fat spread and marmite, and that provided quite a similar quantity of food (~310g) for a fraction under half the calories (~420). Indicative of how disastrous all those off-the-shelf options are. Which comes back to lifestyle and having the ability/time to prepare food rather than just relying on grabbing something readymade and going on.
                                                    But how much time does opening a few yoghurt and cereal packets (while toasting the bread) really take? 5 minutes at most?

                                                    Comment

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