Poll - Next Labour Party Leader

[Duncan Gardner]

My Xmas lunch- a piece of halibut truly fit for Jehovah- prompts a comparison between the Life of Brian blasphemer and the Green Party in 2020- ie poll ratings are still so bad it matters little what we say or to whom. Still...I hope for a Labour leader who seriously supports electoral reform and in the interim is prepared to consider deals with other parties.

In 5 of the 9 English regions (ie all of the Midlands and South beyond London) the Tories got more than 50% of the vote. Pretty stark...

[MsD]

I really like Angela Raynor and want her for deputy.

[Patrick Thistle]

I really like Angela Raynor and want her for deputy.

Was she the one with the AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH banner?

[Nocturnal Submission]

Was she the one with the AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH banner?

No, that was Angela Eagle, I think.

[Nocturnal Submission]

I really like Angela Raynor and want her for deputy.

She's just announced her candidacy, (as you probably know).

[MsD]

All the things Phillips shouts about being - feisty, honest, down-to-earth, a rebel bla-bla, Angela Rayner is.

[MsD]

https://www.indy100.com/video/politi...oster-A9AkQIDa

[Nocturnal Submission]

Timetable and voting eligibility details announced: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51000133

[Duncan Gardner]

If Rayner still used her maiden name (Bowen), she could adapt country pop classic 'Angela Jones' as a theme song

[San Bernardhinault]

I've been saying I wouldn't mind Starmer as he's not a Blair MK 2 or an egomaniac, and he has the chops, however, his refusal to admit he's wrong is worrying.

Admitting you've made a mistake is not a weakness. Starmer interviewed by Marr would not show any responsibility or remorse for his part in the election losses. He sees our neutrality as the problem, though it was he who pushed us into that position, and he still hints that if we campaigned heavily for Remain, we'd have done better.

He can't admit his judgement was wrong and his strategy, against many warnings, was a mistake.

I judged it wrong, many of us mistook the strident arguments of articulate Remainers for the mood of the country, dismissing the Leavers as daft gammons.

Personally I'd moved away from that extreme arch-Remain view, and had been taking issue with the likes of Terry Christian over the past year, but still I believed Remain would have won a second referendum. We were wrong, and we need to learn from that - not necessarily to pander to populism, but to accept that a lot of people want to Leave, and they didn't trust Labour to give them the result they wanted.

Hey-ho.

A couple things to quibble with here.

First, I think Starmer is right that Labour would have done better if they'd campaigned for Remain. Unlike before, I now also think that they'd also have done better if they'd campaigned for Leave. I think the halfway house was particularly damaging.

Second, there's no evidence at all that Remain wouldn't have won a second referendum. The majority of UK voters voted for second referendum or remain parties, and this is after Labour had already bled almost all of it's leave voters in the North to BXP. Just because the electoral system gave a ridiculous majority to the Tories does not mean that their position has popular support. If I was guessing, a second referendum would have ended up very similar to the first, within 5% either way. Remain might have lost, but it's crazy to extrapolate that from the general election results.

[MsD]

Totally decided on RLB and AR. I've always liked RLB but just saw her interview with Owen Jones and she'll be fine.

[Lang Spoon]

Had Labour pushed for leave it might well have lost the voters to the fuckin Swinsonites. But as SB said, a halfway house that pleased no one was doomed to fail. Perhaps there was once room to go for EEA/EFTA combi, staying in both the CU and SM (the CU only deal that Labour belatedly got behind in the Commons was frankly worthless triangulation) while leaving, but that ship sailed somewhere around 2016.

Anyone but fuckin Voice of the People Jess (who is of course middle class as fuck, but we have a media who mistake accent for class, as Joe Kennedy detailed)

[Nefertiti2]

You mean the customs union deal that got defeated by 3 votes because Umunna and co decided to vote against it.

[Lang Spoon]

CU only deal almost worthless. You have to join the SM as well if you don't want to tank the economy. But but triangle shapes and racist pandering that didn't work anyways.

[Lang Spoon]

Labour never once tried to make the moral case for FoM. And fuck them for that.

[Lang Spoon]

Being parochial as fuck, it's amusing that from RLB's Progressive Patriotism to Jess Philips and her dogwhistle crusade, no candidate is referencing Scotland at all. If SLab don't divorce themselves from the Head Office UUP/CSU style, they are even bigger fools than I reckoned. At least Monica Lennon recognises this.

English Nationalism is just how things are done now.

[David Agnew]

Yes, but all those points made by my fellow forum members were made by people who voted Labour last time. Labour need a leader who will attract people who didn't vote Labour last time. Otherwise they will be in opposition for ever. Hence my question, is it better to compromise and have a winner that you don't like, or someone who you agree with, but leaves you stuck in opposition?

Just as important, Labour lead a leader who will also attract people that voted Labour last month. No point attracting one million voters in one direction, if you lose two million in another.

[David Agnew]

Cards on the table for me, right now without actual campaigning and speeches starting, I'm Long-Bailey, Starmer, Lewis, Thornberry, Nandy, Death By Pointy Sticks, Hitler, Phillips.

All changable, of course, with pros and cons for all of them. (For example, ordinarily I'd be for Starmer but we're not in ordinary times.) The top two is most definitely up for grabs.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards Lewis, Thornberry, Starmer, Nandy, Long-Bailey, Death By Pointy Sticks, Lavery, Phillips.

Although, if Long-Bailey were to say that she's happy to get rid of the likes of Milne and Murphy, she'd go up the list.

[Nefertiti2]

CU only deal almost worthless. You have to join the SM as well if you don't want to tank the economy. But but triangle shapes and racist pandering that didn't work anyways.

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IF UMUNNA AND CO HAD VOTED FOR THE CUSTOMS UNION WE WOULD STILL BE IN IT and I suspect Johnson would have been finished

[Patrick Thistle]

Death By Pointy Sticks isn't the leader anyone wants, but probably the leader many deserve.

[Lang Spoon]

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IF UMUNNA AND CO HAD VOTED FOR THE CUSTOMS UNION WE WOULD STILL BE IN IT and I suspect Johnson would have been finished

The CU on its own isn't worth shit.

[Nefertiti2]

it wouldnt have been on its own though would it? And it would be a fuck of a lot better than where Britain is at the moment.



You may not have spotted this over in Ireland but most of the UK is going to leave in less than two weeks time and with no deal in sight.

[Lang Spoon]

Seriously man, all my family live in fuckin Scotland that's utterly fucked cos of the rest of racist island. And Brexit isn't exactly going to be a barrel of laughs for Ireland North and South either. Also no deal isn't going to happen when Brexit becomes reality Jan 31. Transition will be in place at that moment.

the pisspoor all over the place Brexit "strategy" of Labour these past three years is partly why.

[Lang Spoon]

Had fucking Labour got behind a CU plus SM deal that would have got 35 SNP votes in the Commons. even fucking Swinson would have been hard pressed not to vote for that. If you think having the same deal as fucking Turkey would solve Brexit then good luck.

[Nocturnal Submission]

RLB's in: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51012381

Lewis Goodall was saying on Newsnight that Len McCluskey's not sold on her and might throw Unite's weight behind another candidate, which is a bit surprising if true, (to me anyway).