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The Dis-United Kingdom Thread - (Indyref 2, United Ireland poll, Welsh independence)

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    Devolution in a country as centralised, unequal and badly run as Britain might well break it into little pieces. However shit the prentendy parliaments may have been, they aren't as fucked up as the shitshow in that there Lunnon.

    The Bagehot bullshit of Parliamentary sovereignty residing Absolutely in Westminster took guns to be broken in the 26 counties 100 years back, I doubt it'll survive the next twenty years in Scotland and Wales, and without a shot being fired (hopefully). Every regime requires at least the illusion of consent. Especially one as Late Soviet broken as the UK.

    God knows what happens with the fucking Nordies but.
    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 04-09-2020, 23:38.

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      Going back to the discussion on Brexit style campaigning this comment on Facebook caught my eye

      I dont remember Westminster asking the EU if we could leave. We had a vote and did it.
      The only people who should have a say of Welsh independence are Welsh citizens and those living in Wales.
      Same as Scotland. Why on earth should another countries government decide the future of said country.

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        Going back to Yorkshire, my experience of West Yorkshire was always that people were town first, Yorkshire second when it came to identity. Not that being from Yorkshire wasn't ridiculously overstated but it paled when compared to being from Bradford, Leeds or Halifax.

        Are my impressions wrong?

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          Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
          Devolution in a country as centralised, unequal and badly run as Britain might well break it into little pieces. However shit the prentendy parliaments may have been, they aren't as fucked up as the shitshow in that there Lunnon.

          The Bagehot bullshit of Parliamentary sovereignty residing Absolutely in Westminster took guns to be broken in the 26 counties 100 years back, I doubt it'll survive the next twenty years in Scotland and Wales, and without a shot being fired (hopefully). Every regime requires at least the illusion of consent. Especially one as Late Soviet broken as the UK.

          God knows what happens with the fucking Nordies but.
          Watching the Mc Guinness documentary on RTE during the week, it was amazing how Paisley went from NO NO NO! to one of the Chuckle brothers overnight when it was pragmatic to do so. Money and power speaks.

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            https://twitter.com/Effiedeans/status/1302186954751201280

            As was pointed out, it was a Labour FM who passed the Languages Act.

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              She's a fuckin freak anyways. The Unionist mirror of Wings Over Scotland fuckers.

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                https://twitter.com/politiceir/status/1302302681814441991

                In such a scenario, you would imagine the SDs, SDLP and Labour would be one all-island party, however.

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                  Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
                  https://twitter.com/politiceir/status/1302302681814441991

                  In such a scenario, you would imagine the SDs, SDLP and Labour would be one all-island party, however.
                  A lot of the SDLP support is Taigy Big House Farmers Agin Abortion but. That's old school FG if it's anything (which is possibly the only explanation I can think of for fuckin Mark Durkan).

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                    The last time that I heard the SDLP trying to be relevant was when they were talking to Fianna Fail about a cross border alliance. They deserve a huge amount of credit for what they did during the 60s and 70s ,much more than the Shinners do .but they haven't moved on from then.

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                      Lots of interesting stuff above. Briefly from the floorboards up:

                      English Regions

                      I've long thought of the Yorkshire Party, Mebyon Kernow etc as shy Tories pretending to be Ratepayers posing as Proudly Local. Up here we had the Black Country Party in the last Council Elections. Probably a stunt for the leaders' business, but there is a significant support for not being dictated to by London (or even worse, Birmingham)…

                      Cymru

                      Hard to see Plaid making imminent gains beyond their Arfon (Griffiths) powerbase in the North West. There were some respectable showings in December- Valleys towns, the SW beyond Abertawe- but in the 3 big cities they're just above or below the deposit threshold.

                      Can I press the panel on how you see the electorate being defined in any Independence Referendum? All residents, fine, but who exactly are “Welsh Citizens”? As mentioned above Gwilym ap Tomos won't be applying...

                      Alba

                      This week both ex-SPAD Ayesha Hazarika and Staggers hack Stephen Bush were talking about SLab's haplessness. Bush was more honest-as Spoony says on this thread, the Party- or any non-Tory oppo to the SNP- will go nowhere unless and until another IndyRef is successful.

                      AH is half right. The Red Wall around Stoke or Barnsley isn't the crucial area- even if Starmer wins back all the 50 seats lost in the Midlands and North, so what? But Labour should stop daydreaming about Scotland and take Staffordshire, Somerset and Surrey much more seriously. Ed Davey is up for discussing some sort of deal. What has either party to lose, certainly not seats.


                      Surely that Language story is silly season? Even the DUP don't pretend any more that rewriting the road signs is really divisive or costly. Dromnadrochit would be a good band name.

                      (I plan a new think tank, SESIB. Scots- English Structural Infrastructure Building, with Spoony as director. Stop ending sentences in but ).

                      Ultonia

                      That (Dancing at) Lughnasa poll is novel. As it suggests, Unionists are largely irrelevant both in London and on their own moribund glorified Council, but one day that 12%- 40% of 30% of the whole island- might be significant?

                      Disagree with both Guapo and Spoony on the SDLP. While it's understandable to look back to Hume's heyday given his recent death, their strength now is young and urban, not papist Culchie farmers. BT South is as close as NI gets to socio-economically/ ethnically diverse. It's nearly as woke as Jamal Lewis. Although I'd take the Botanic Avenue boast to offer fast food from every global culture more seriously if they weren't all owned by the same Provo/ UDA front company.

                      Me Hole? Toast, presumably...











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                        Effie Deans is unhinged, Dunc. For some reason though there's a certain kind of arsehole who gets really upset about the "waste" (when in reality teuchter roadsigns are only made bilingual when due for replacement). Not exclusive to Unionists either, Transphobe professional arsehole and Bath residing Nat Stuart Campbell also has it in for the Gaelic.

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                          https://twitter.com/WelshDalaiLama/status/1167392062473408512?s=19

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                            Britain's longest serving party leader is disgruntled:

                            https://twitter.com/CllrDickCole/status/1303046404198354945

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                              Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
                              Britain's longest serving party leader is disgruntled:

                              https://twitter.com/CllrDickCole/status/1303046404198354945

                              OMG! I thought that Dick Cole was a joke name. He's real!

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                                Wee Ruthie and her refereeing enforcer Doug the Thug have been in touch...

                                Tue, 8 Sep at 09:54
                                Hey, Pal*
                                It didn’t take long, did it?

                                Scotland hasn’t even finished fighting the Covid-19 pandemic. People’s lives and livelihoods are still on the line.

                                But last Tuesday, Nicola Sturgeon confirmed that – before the Scottish elections in May – she would announce a date for another independence referendum.

                                It’s the very last thing Scotland needs.

                                That’s why the Scottish Conservatives are going to challenge the Nationalists, day in day out, right up until polling day next May.

                                We’re up for this fight. We’re up for taking on the SNP and defeating their new referendum plans. But we can’t do it alone – we need your help.

                                Bluntly, we need to raise the funds needed to compete with the SNP across every seat in Scotland.

                                They have the full power of the Scottish Government to back them up. We have you.

                                So can you help us, Friend?

                                Any donation you can make, no matter how large or small, would be a huge help as we take our fight to the SNP and their drive for another independence referendum.

                                Thank you for all your support in the past, and for being a part of our fightback against the SNP and their divisive plans. As long as we can count on you to be a part of this, we know that we can win.
                                Yours sincerely,
                                Douglas Ross MP and Ruth Davidson MSP
                                Scottish Conservative & Unionist Party

                                * the original said "Dear Friend"

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                                  Dick Cole reminds of my late cousin by marriage, Dick Springer (from Virgina: our Margaret gave up 60s Belfast to au pair and then become a GI bride)

                                  I only met him once as an adult (early 80s), when he insisted that then President Ronald Reagan was a "pinko commie faggot"

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                                    I wonder if there's any life left in the Baroness Davidson brand, her shouty pointy/cheeky quip schtick was looking tired and old last year. God anyone who's a Scottish Tory at this point is either a feart pinshiner or a total fucking scumbag.

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                                      Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                      I wonder if there's any life left in the Baroness Davidson brand, her shouty pointy/cheeky quip schtick was looking tired and old last year. God anyone who's a Scottish Tory at this point is either a feart pinshiner or a total fucking scumbag.
                                      Of course the word 'Scottish' in your last sentence could easily be left out and it would be just as true

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                                        https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1303597060852264960

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                                          Oh ffs. "Plain-speaking, breath of fresh air, working class" (parents were teachers and factory managers Ffs- even being from Levenmouth doesn't make you working class by default).

                                          just take the presenting gig with HIGNFY that is your birthright and fuck the fuck off. That fucking smile.
                                          Last edited by Lang Spoon; 09-09-2020, 10:06.

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                                            Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                            Oh ffs. "Plain-speaking, breath of fresh air, working class" (parents were teachers and factory managers Ffs- even being from Levenmouth doesn't make you working class by default).

                                            just take the presenting gig with HIGNFY that is your birthright and fuck the fuck off. That fucking smile.
                                            That title is annoying me - did they come up with it first and then recruit her, or recruit her first and then go through some equally terrible titles like "Ruth or Dare" and "You Can't Handle the Ruth" (sub-title "No Ruth Handler You") before settling on that one.

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                                              https://twitter.com/AileenMcHarg/status/1303723959016394755

                                              and this, as much as ERG disaster capitalism is the aim of that evil fuck Gove I'd wager. Someone needs to cut that degenerate's nosebag and whisky with DMT, confront him with the full rotten state of his soul.

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                                                Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

                                                Well that's Nation.Cymru saying what Yes Cymru need to do but I agree with all of that in terms of strategy. I've said it previously on this thread.

                                                If the argument has already won about leaving oppressive unions who don't give a fuck about ordinary people then.just carry on that campaign. It's time for Wales to take back control.
                                                i think my problem with YesCymru, which is neatly encapsulated in that article, is that i don't know why they want independence. like what's the point of it? what are they trying to achieve?

                                                the idea that they seem to be pushing is that nothing will change really, but the idea of a tory run independent state of west britannia sounds nightmarish, where the ICE racist kidnap squads are based in Newport rather than reporting to bosses in london. getting evicted by welsh-speaking landlords? like what's the point unless something else is going to happen?

                                                I know narrow and misleading economic arguments worked in terms of winning a brexit referendum, but a) look at how that's gone since and b) they had the country's right-wing media behind them.

                                                more annoying though is the "we're not anti-british we're just anti-san steffan". what about those of us who really fucking hate britain and who are primarily motivated to support welsh independence by our desire to dismantle this awful country?

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                                                  Originally posted by Bizarre Löw Triangle View Post

                                                  more annoying though is the "we're not anti-british we're just anti-san steffan". what about those of us who really fucking hate britain and who are primarily motivated to support welsh independence by our desire to dismantle this awful country?
                                                  I'm sure you're welcome. #AUOB

                                                  But you raise a point. What happens next? They're not a party with a manifesto.

                                                  As someone who grew up in England, still has an accent, and only knows beginners Welsh, I appreciate the "we don't hate England/the English" theme in Yes Cymru messaging. Some of the people who comment on the social media posts on support of independence just sound like racists if they swapped "English" for another nationality or ethnicity.



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                                                    Were a Holyrood election to be held today, the Scottish Tories would even fall behind SLab in seat numbers:

                                                    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1304376102517960704

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