The Dis-United Kingdom Thread - (Indyref 2, United Ireland poll, Welsh independence)

[Diable Rouge]

https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1351161712414744576

[Foot of Astaire's]

Yep, because the Welsh people voted for the Senedd and to increase its powers. But we live in a "modern democracy" so that's OK, and previous attempts to eradicate Welsh culture were just "medieval shenanigans" (in the 20th century).

1536 is pretty medieval no?

Any road, I'll just leave this here

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.w...ir-2017604.amp

I've no reason to disbelieve your grandparents experience. Out of interest though was it Welsh teachers punishing them for speaking English?

[Patrick Thistle]

Can't understand why welsh and scottish labour are going for federalism now. A decade ago (or even in the aftermath of the 2014 referendum) it might have been a bold play to seize the agenda, but now it's addressing the demands of precisely nobody and would likely make everything worse.

It's like when the lib dems staked their political future on a referendum on the alternative vote.

It feels like Labour are missing the point on just about everything these days.

[DCI Harry Batt]

https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1351161712414744576

Lennon might be interesting. Which is one reason I think it's unlikely she'll win.

[Patrick Thistle]

1536 is pretty medieval no?

Any road, I'll just leave this here

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.w...ir-2017604.amp

I've no reason to disbelieve your grandparents experience. Out of interest though was it Welsh teachers punishing them for speaking English?

I don't know the nationality of their teachers but the likelihood is, yes, because they were being taught in Wales. I don't know what relevance that has.

The 1536 union (annexation?) was the beginning of a process that culminated in the Welsh Not and so on. You can see it tracking with the growth of "Britain" as an imperial power. In Britain as overseas political superiority was linked to cultural superiority.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

I don't know the nationality of their teachers but the likelihood is, yes, because they were being taught in Wales. I don't know what relevance that has.

These teachers would almost certainly been Welsh. A language doesn't largely eradicate itself because an external force wills it. It needs the active collaboration and participation of the colonized people. I'm sure that the people involved would justify it as "trying to teach them the language that would give them the best chance when they moved to england", but also the association of the native language with poverty etc. If you think about it for any length of time it just fucking hurts your head.

[Patrick Thistle]

One thing the Blue Books noted as a problem in the Welsh speaking areas were schoolteachers who only spoke English. So where did they come from? Possibly other parts of Wales where Welsh wasn't spoken.

There were other pressures on Welsh as well, of course. The mass migration into the coalfields changed the demography of south Wales and north east Wales considerably.

[pebblethefish]

The 1536 union (annexation?) was the beginning of a process that culminated in the Welsh Not and so on. You can see it tracking with the growth of "Britain" as an imperial power. In Britain as overseas political superiority was linked to cultural superiority.

So, basically, we didn't want an empire until you lot got on board? So, it was all your fault?

I'm telling the Commonwealth on you!

[DCI Harry Batt]

Lennon also said Scottish Labour should be completely independent as a party. A year or two back, I think.

[DCI Harry Batt]

"I've no reason to disbelieve" is...well, it's not believing, is it?

[Patrick Thistle]

So, basically, we didn't want an empire until you lot got on board? So, it was all your fault?

More like the English couldn't do it without Welsh coal and steel.

[Patrick Thistle]

I read an interesting thing about how if you look at the Welsh road and rail infrastructure it reveals an "extraction economy" much like you see in South American and some African countries.

[Lang Spoon]

Like no proper transport infrastructure linking North and South Wales, only to the ports or Brum/Lunnon?

[Antepli Ejderha]

Like no proper transport infrastructure linking North and South Wales, only to the ports or Brum/Lunnon?

Exactly this.

[Antepli Ejderha]

I read an interesting thing about how if you look at the Welsh road and rail infrastructure it reveals an "extraction economy" much like you see in South American and some African countries.

Have you got a link for that please? It makes a lot of sense.

[Patrick Thistle]

It was on Twitter. I will see if I can find it.

[Patrick Thistle]

I can't find the specific tweet but if you put "Wales extraction economy" or "Wales infrastructure extraction" into Twitter search a load comes up. Worth noting the development of ports especially Holyhead to enable quick exports to Ireland back when that island was entirely ruled by London as well.

[Lang Spoon]

And quick imports of Irish beef/dairy/grain into Britain.

[Lang Spoon]

Lennon also said Scottish Labour should be completely independent as a party. A year or two back, I think.

She's definitely about the only SLab MSP with integrity. But SLab has always been right wing, has prob lost most of the "entryists" that joined in Corbyn's time, and I'd say the "centrists" will have it sewn up for the Managerial, New Labour to his fingertips, devolution sceptic (he's only in Holyrood cos he lost his WM seat) Sarwar.

I've no time for the useless Leonard, but that he was pretty much fired by bloody Rayner after Donors "had a word" says it all about what's wrong with Slab.

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

Lennon also said Scottish Labour should be completely independent as a party. A year or two back, I think.

That is very obviously the right thing for SLab

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

I read an interesting thing about how if you look at the Welsh road and rail infrastructure it reveals an "extraction economy" much like you see in South American and some African countries.

Or Ireland. The Grand canal dock, which was where goods that travelled along one of the canals going from the shannon to dublin, was loaded onto ocean going boats, was the largest dock in the world in the first half of the nineteenth century.

[Patrick Thistle]

Feels like the same murky shit around the Brexit campaign

https://twitter.com/NoToHateInWales/status/1351205466358095874?s=19

[Patrick Thistle]

Also... because Duncan Gardner loves this sort of thing

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1351303022652100614?s=19

[DCI Harry Batt]

Is that kinda similar to the last result? Looks like it for Labour.

[Diable Rouge]

Interesting that fully "coming out" for Indy seems to have boosted the Welsh Greens, which leaves matters at:

Devolution: 34-38%
Abolition: 31-36% (if you include Con in that camp)
Independence: 28%