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    Autonomous Vehicles

    It'll be no surprise that I read a lot about cars. Two topics have dominated print and pixels for the past 3 years, almost non-stop: electric vehicles and autonomous / self-driving cars.

    The first is a given. It's here, it's improving rapidly, barriers are understandable and manageable, and there's real demand. I get it.

    But autonomous vehicles? I ...I just don't want one. I really enjoy driving. Surely I'm not alone in this. I mean, I can see wanting an autonomous mode on the dashboard, and late at night when I'm on the way home from the cottage I can just flip it on and cruise along half-asleep. Or if I want to drive to Florida, an autonomous mode does the boring bit in the night while I sleep.

    But is that what it's about? Or do people actually want a pod car where they sit and read a book the whole journey, with nary a thought about steering. I don't get it.

    So, autonomous vehicle: do they interest you and why?


    #2
    Safety and lack of need for anyone (at least in urban areas) to own their own cars.

    Though we are a long long long way before the damn things are safe or truly autonomous.

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      #3
      Around town, I suppose. If they were actually safe. Which they aren't, and aren't going to be any time soon. But make them little buses rather than individual cars, that would be better.

      Longer distances shouldn't be done by car, of course.

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        #4
        My friend works for Nuro. It is an interesting use of AV but I still don't quite get why I need it. I guess people who get groceries delivered are further along in this idea than I am.

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          #5
          Originally posted by TonTon View Post
          Longer distances shouldn't be done by car, of course.
          This is interesting. You likely come at it from a perspective of someone who has a network of alternatives (rail / bus) that don't exist over here. In Toronto, I could totally see an autonomous pod service based on apps / AI, that took care of short distances. But here, long trips are only practically workable by car. I mean, Toronto to Montreal is one thing, but Toronto to any small town in Ontario is virtually impossible by transit.

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            #6
            Originally posted by TonTon View Post
            Longer distances shouldn't be done by car, of course.
            You really need to show your working on that one. It sounds like there are a lot of underlying assumptions that may not exist.

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              #7
              Which of course didn't used to be the case

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                #8
                WOM - I don't assume the infrastructure for an alternative already exists, and am not particularly criticising anyone for the choices they make.

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                  #9
                  My working is "cars are bad, mmkay?".

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                    #10
                    All cars or just gas cars? Or are you fundamentally opposed to personal transport? Sincere question.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                      Which of course didn't used to be the case.
                      Indeed . Every small town in Ontario has a lovely old train station sitting next to nothing. Maybe it's a walking path or something, but certainly not rail tracks.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by WOM View Post
                        All cars or just gas cars? Or are you fundamentally opposed to personal transport? Sincere question.
                        Well now, there's a question. I think it starts from the wrong place though. Like the whole "electric car" thing starts from the wrong place.

                        So I am against atomised and privatised transport being the starting point, for sure. There might be a place for some small amounts of small, local individual travel options in the overall mix though.

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                          #13
                          Given the fuckwitted way people drive cars I'm all for full automation and handing everything over to the AIs. But then I'm on the side of the machines anyway. They're the future.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by WOM View Post
                            But is that what it's about? Or do people actually want a pod car where they sit and read a book the whole journey, with nary a thought about steering. I don't get it.
                            Absolutely. But only theoretically. I don't for one minute believe they're close to happening with any acceptable degree of safety in my lifetime — which means a couple of decades or so max.

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                              #15
                              We need to get rid of all these individual cars that all need to be parked on pavement. So much of the planet is paved over to accommodate cars that are only there a few hours per day, at most.

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                                #16
                                I spend plenty of time during the quiet times at work discussing this kind of stuff with the petrolheads in the gang.

                                It's not necessary that cars will be fully autonomous, but will be in certain areas and situations. Motorways seem like the logical place for the removal of the driver, towns and country roads less so. Whatever makes driving safer will ultimately win out. If automation sees cars talking to each other, and not in a Kit from Knight Rider way, and overriding drivers then I reckon most will succumb and let the car will do all the work, but I'm with WOM and still think folk will want to actually drive. Like the man with the red flag walking in front of the earliest motorised charabancs those of us actually in control of our cars will have some kind of flashing beacon to warn everyone else.

                                I wonder if the future will see motorways and trunk roads connecting major cities run almost like a railway system where driver control isn't necessary as all vehicles move at the same speed and are kept a safe distance apart. You'll drive your car, as normal, down the slip road, wait for a space and then join the stream of traffic when your vehcile deems it safe. At this point you'll then be able to sit back and move at a steady 70, just like everyone else, no overtaking and no other speed. Only when it's time to leave the main road will you re-take control and off you go.

                                Yes, these ideas need work.



                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Greenlander View Post
                                  I spend plenty of time during the quiet times at work discussing this kind of stuff with the petrolheads in the gang.

                                  It's not necessary that cars will be fully autonomous, but will be in certain areas and situations. Motorways seem like the logical place for the removal of the driver, towns and country roads less so. Whatever makes driving safer will ultimately win out. If automation sees cars talking to each other, and not in a Kit from Knight Rider way, and overriding drivers then I reckon most will succumb and let the car will do all the work, but I'm with WOM and still think folk will want to actually drive. Like the man with the red flag walking in front of the earliest motorised charabancs those of us actually in control of our cars will have some kind of flashing beacon to warn everyone else.

                                  I wonder if the future will see motorways and trunk roads connecting major cities run almost like a railway system where driver control isn't necessary as all vehicles move at the same speed and are kept a safe distance apart. You'll drive your car, as normal, down the slip road, wait for a space and then join the stream of traffic when your vehcile deems it safe. At this point you'll then be able to sit back and move at a steady 70, just like everyone else, no overtaking and no other speed. Only when it's time to leave the main road will you re-take control and off you go.

                                  Yes, these ideas need work.


                                  Engineers proposed that idea a long time ago and I think that will happen. If every car were tightly controlled by a computer, all traffic could move rapidly with every car just a meter or less apart. That would be much safer and more efficient.

                                  But we need to still reduce the number of vehicles and the space it takes to store them.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    The problem I have with the above is that isn't the problem the companies are trying to solve. They are trying to get full AI working in every circumstance. And they are using terrible development techniques to do it with in the absolute worst way.

                                    They should have gone down a similar route to aviation - where most operations have been / can be automated instead of trying to crack the problem of automating every plane at every airport at once.

                                    Fundamentally, you've got nerds seeing it as a software problem, not a car problem.

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                      But then I'm on the side of the machines anyway. They're the future.
                                      Is this the moment that Patrick finally outs himself as The Terminator?

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Greenlander View Post
                                        . Whatever makes driving safer cheaper will ultimately win out.

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                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                          Though we are a long long long way before the damn things are safe or truly autonomous.
                                          How are you defining 'safe'?

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                                            #22
                                            Maybe as safer than this?
                                            Tesla's Autopilot now recognises traffic cones

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                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Ginger Yellow View Post
                                              Tesla's Autopilot feature doesn't claim to be autonomous.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Musk claims Tesla will have "feature complete" full self driving by the end of the year.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Musk is a lying knobend.

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