Bolivia

[Nefertiti2]

Wheres that from HP

wikipedia has this...

socialist administration of former BolivianPresident Evo Morales maintained a strained relationship with the Bolivian hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church. This posed a problem for Morales as polls taken in the early 2000s indicated that 77% of the Bolivian population is Catholic, meaning that about seven million of the nine million Bolivians follow the Roman Catholic faith.^[1][2]

When faced with a Morales policy that they disagree with—such as the proposed secularization of schools—Catholic bishops of Bolivia are able to inspire large demonstrations against the measures. The Catholic Church draws most of its support from the cities and little from the higher rural areas (where Morales draws his main support) due to "a lack of resources and to indigenous cultural resistance to Church efforts to replace traditional attitudes".^[3] Morales has stated that he is a Catholic;^[4] he like many rural Bolivians was raised with a combination of Catholicism and belief in "the Pachamama or Mother Earth figure, as well as on Ekeko, a traditional indigenous god of luck, harvests, and general abundanc

[Hot Pepsi]

Good info.

I should have added that it also isn’t wise or just for the Catholic Church to alienate indigenous people by trying to stamp out their traditional spirituality.

Of course, secularizing/democratizing public schools is a good idea. But I’m not sure if a majority of Bolivians would agree. Not yet, anyway. Maybe they do, but I could also imagine that might be a tough sell in a lot of places, even those that generally vote left.

[Nefertiti2]

Appreciate the response,HP. There’s a battle for the soul of the Catholic Church at the moment. Francis is the most radical certainly since John 23 - he has a lot of opponents, but he’s the first South American pope.

meanwhile

[URL]https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1196224557633409025?s=21[/URL]

[ursus arctos]

And that battle recently has focused directly on the treatment of indigenous people

Some of the pope's opponents charge that the synod's working document was inspired by pagan, anti-Christian ideas. Conservative bloggers and websites also lashed out at a tree-planting ceremony on Saturday in the Vatican gardens, marking the feast day of St. Francis of Assisi.

Their anger was directed at the presentation of an indigenous wooden sculpture of a pregnant woman, which they interpreted as a pagan fertility idol rather than an image of the Virgin Mary.

This was a huge thing among the "traditional Catholic" media here, who hate Francis and everything he stands for.

[Flynnie]

American tradcaths are such freakin' weirdos, not least because a huge proportion of them are converts rather than cradle Catholics, who take a rather more laconic approach to things. Speaking from experience...

[ursus arctos]

A thousand times yes

[Hot Pepsi]

American tradcaths are such freakin' weirdos, not least because a huge proportion of them are converts rather than cradle Catholics, who take a rather more laconic approach to things. Speaking from experience...

Indeed. They're often evangelical fundamentalists who decided that wasn't sufficiently misogynist.

[Ginger Yellow]

I'm not sure a country with JRM as a minister is in a position to be lecturing others on their weirdo tradcaths.

[Flynnie]

I'm not sure a country with JRM as a minister is in a position to be lecturing others on their weirdo tradcaths.

Their? Who is their, kemosabe?

[ursus arctos]

Not to mention the fact that JRM would be considered sopping wet by US tradcath standards.

[Flynnie]

Not to mention the fact that JRM would be considered sopping wet by US tradcath standards.

Reed's onto something with people who think evangelical Christianity is soft. JRM's rather naked love of capitalism uber alles would also mark him out, these people are basically Franquistas.

[Hot Pepsi]

Yeah. Our current attorney general is clearly a one of those. He's also a liar and believes the job of the AG is to be the president's lawyer, which it definitely isn't.

[ursus arctos]

I'm focused more on their position on Church politics.

I haven't seen JRM go Sedevacantist on anyone.

Though HP is spot on about Barr, who really fits Flynnie's profile in every way.

[Gangster Octopus]

Don't stay away too long RC.

[Balderdasha]

When I was in Bolivia in 2002 we noticed that many of the armed police had 'uniforms' that were simply khaki t-shirts with the word 'policia' scrawled on the back in biro. Our tour guide claimed that for the first year of any new cop's training, their entire salary went towards buying their uniform. This had several negative effects. One was that anyone could scrawl 'policia' on a t-shirt and believably be a first-year cop. The other was that the lack of a salary for the first year meant that nearly all new cops were taking bribes before the year was out just in order to survive.

Now, it should be noted that our tour guide was a grade-A, bull-shitting cokehead who also claimed that his father was part of the military junta government in Argentina during the 80s (I have no idea if this or any of his claims were true). But the mere sight of surly teenagers slouching around the streets in scrappy t-shirts armed with machine guns was pretty unsettling.

I have no real idea how this dynamic would feed into a military coup, but I suspect it wouldn't help matters.

[Lang Spoon]

Fuckin hell.

[E10 Rifle]

This was pre-Morales, of course, so it could be that yer under-paid bribe-happy cops voted for him in 2006. Whether they still do, who knows?

[Nefertiti2]

[URL]https://twitter.com/jkbloodtreasure/status/1197291294940450817?s=21[/URL]

[Diable Rouge]

https://twitter.com/OVargas52/status/1208445944955625477

[Nefertiti2]

[URL]https://twitter.com/camilatelesur/status/1218009987018121222?s=21[/URL]

[Nefertiti2]

[URL]https://twitter.com/mc_heckin_duff/status/1218959509797920769?s=21[/URL]

[Nefertiti2]

No election fraud... just a coup

[URL]https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1233017699644641280?s=21[/URL]

[Nesta]

At what time does one look at a situation and think, perhaps one should be careful about what side you are taking.

[Incandenza]

No election fraud... just a coup

[URL]https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1233017699644641280?s=21[/URL]

I was going to link that.

When the left and people inside Bolivia were saying that there was a coup taking place--hmm, it seems like a very complex situation, let's hope that violence is at a minimum and order is restored.

When two MIT statisticians say that the underlying rationale for the coup was invalid--THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS

[Nefertiti2]

As we're seeing in britian there's nothing the liberal centre likes more than crying over spilt milk.

Suddenly we are told about the deaths austerity have caused and that life expectancy is falling- that Johnson is planning to take us out of Europe without a deal.
Why didn't you discuss this when there was an election and people could have stopped it?