General Election, December 2019

[pebblethefish]

That small print is quite fantastic, and I'm saying this as a probable LD supporter. The graphic "clearly" shows that if the Labour 8% joined the LD lot, then it would work. And if you hadn't pointed out the small print, I wouldn't have read it.

[Nefertiti2]

“ it’s not her role to jump in and defend the PM”

But that appears to have been her role over the last years, and more assiduously since Boris Johnson assumed the role.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

“ it’s not her role to jump in and defend the PM”

But that appears to have been her role over the last years, and more assiduously since Boris Johnson assumed the role.

Exactly, it is what her role has become in practice but it shouldn't be, and she is going to sail close to the wind when election rules kick in - and if/when she breaches them the damage will be done by the time she gets a mild rebuke from up top.

I'm looking forward (in hope rather than expectation) to the Tories tanking in the early results on election night and her saying 'well in many ways there's a sense that this could work in Boris Johnson's favour....'

Incidentally not longer after the referendum I attended an event where she spoke (non political) where she described the moment she knew "something was in the air" on the referendum result night when she received a text from a senior MP on the Remain side admitting things weren't going their way. Which was fair enough but she said this text was between 2-3am, which as far as I recall was long after most of the rest of us realised "something was in the air".

[Nocturnal Submission]

I'm not going to defend all of LK's output, but the tweet about Morgan was accurate, unless the latter is obfuscating, and a big political news event, hence worth reporting swiftly.

Morgan has changed her views on Brexit and joined the Cabinet so I'm not sure that her decision to stand down at the next GE is really about One Nation Tories being unable to represent the party in Parliament. David Lidington's decision announced on the same day is all you need to support that narrative. Morgan's prime motivation for stepping down is the tone of political debate in the UK at present and the abuse which MPs are subject to, particularly women MPs.

This was discussed on Newsnight last night. There were three women MPs on there, including Anna Soubry who said that her 85-year-old mother had received a death threat and that Soubry's partner had received a "sympathies" card stating that she was dead and he was next. Heidi Allen said that the final straw for her was a vicious e-mail about her abortion.

Intimidation, as much as and perhaps even more than policy differences, is a big story in the context of MPs deciding not to re-contest the next election. The suggestion that LK is covering for Johnson or the Government all of the time just isn't true.

[Ginger Yellow]

I think the objection is more that there's no reason for it not to be on the record rather than "I understand". It's the juxtaposition of the blatant stenography with a phrasing that implies editorial judgment.

[Nocturnal Submission]

I think the objection is more that there's no reason for it not to be on the record rather than "I understand". It's the juxtaposition of the blatant stenography with a phrasing that implies editorial judgment.

But it was on the record very shortly afterwards. Kuenssberg just got a scoop.

[Snake Plissken]

Lidington, Rudd and Morgan all deciding not to stand again is a story though. A former Deputy PM and Secretary of State for Work and Pensions less than five months ago, plus a current Cabinet Minister all decide to say "sod this" on the same day. (And Heidi Allen, plus a couple of others.) I don't wish to deny or minimise the abuse they have received, but that febrile atmosphere can be pinned exactly on the Prime Minister, his "No 10 source" and the various Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg, Banks and Francois. (Remember that today is the day that Britain is supposed to "explode" because it hasn't left the EU.)

That's why "Oh, it's just a personal decision, let's move on" doesn't wash. We're already at a high pitch and about to enter the most divisive election in years where the abuse is going to get worse and the BBCs Political Editor - who can sniff out an antisemitic tweet at a thousand yards - doesn't spot a trend.

[George C.]

Aye, what SP said.

Why be an apologist for the biased Kuenssberg?

[Nocturnal Submission]

Lidington, Rudd and Morgan all deciding not to stand again is a story though. A former Deputy PM and Secretary of State for Work and Pensions less than five months ago, plus a current Cabinet Minister all decide to say "sod this" on the same day. (And Heidi Allen, plus a couple of others.) I don't wish to deny or minimise the abuse they have received, but that febrile atmosphere can be pinned exactly on the Prime Minister, his "No 10 source" and the various Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg, Banks and Francois. (Remember that today is the day that Britain is supposed to "explode" because it hasn't left the EU.)

That's why "Oh, it's just a personal decision, let's move on" doesn't wash. We're already at a high pitch and about to enter the most divisive election in years where the abuse is going to get worse and the BBCs Political Editor - who can sniff out an antisemitic tweet at a thousand yards - doesn't spot a trend.

But I agree that it's a story and it's being covered in the media. It's just that, for Morgan, according to her own words, the personal abuse is a bigger factor than the policy differences. Which is what LK reported but is being ridiculed for.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Aye, what SP said.

Why be an apologist for the biased Kuenssberg?

It's got something to do with honestly appraising what she's said rather than disregarding her every utterance as that of a Tory apologist.

[johnr]

That small print is quite fantastic, and I'm saying this as a probable LD supporter. The graphic "clearly" shows that if the Labour 8% joined the LD lot, then it would work. And if you hadn't pointed out the small print, I wouldn't have read it.

I hope that this doesn't sound like an attack, pebble, because it genuinely isn't. I'm interested in your point on another thread about you not really having any political views, and then being a probable Lib Dem supporter. Do you think it might be that 'not having political views' can translate as 'the Lib Dems are not in themselves - or are not seen as - overtly political' - essentially, that things will stay roughly the same, were they in power?

[Nefertiti2]

But it was on the record very shortly afterwards. Kuenssberg just got a scoop.

In this case “scoop”= “given access to the story early in return for framing the story the way the access granter wished “

[pebblethefish]

I hope that this doesn't sound like an attack, pebble, because it genuinely isn't. I'm interested in your point on another thread about you not really having any political views, and then being a probable Lib Dem supporter. Do you think it might be that 'not having political views' can translate as 'the Lib Dems are not in themselves - or are not seen as - overtly political' - essentially, that things will stay roughly the same, were they in power?

Pretty much, yeah.

And "supporter" is probably too strong a word, I just dislike them less than I dislike the others.

[Nocturnal Submission]

In this case “scoop”= “given access to the story early in return for framing the story the way the access granter wished “

Well, if what happened was that Morgan contacted LK and said that she wasn't going to stand in the GE mainly because of the strain that abuse was putting on her and her family and then, shortly afterwards, she issues a PR to that effect and then goes on the radio to say the same, I'm really not sure what the problem is.

There isn't any framing to be done, unless of course you believe that family reasons are a secondary concern and that policy differences are the main issue. But taking Morgan at her word, that's not the case.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Pretty much, yeah.

And "supporter" is probably too strong a word, I just dislike them less than I dislike the others.

I suspect that you're about to become an OTF "project."

Tin hat on, pebble old son.

[Ginger Yellow]

Well, if what happened was that Morgan contacted LK and said that she wasn't going to stand in the GE mainly because of the strain that abuse was putting on her and her family and then, shortly afterwards, she issues a PR to that effect and then goes on the radio to say the same, I'm really not sure what the problem is.

There isn't any framing to be done, unless of course you believe that family reasons are a secondary concern and that policy differences are the main issue. But taking Morgan at her word, that's not the case.

The news was already public. What she was doing was relaying spin on the news, anonymously. I don't consider that the role of a journalist. Sometimes the subject's spin is a story, but only if they're on the record.*

* Or, eg, if you name someone who has been spinning off the record.

[Nocturnal Submission]

The news was already public. What she was doing was relaying spin on the news, anonymously. I don't consider that the role of a journalist. Sometimes the subject's spin is a story, but only if they're on the record.*

* Or, eg, if you name someone who has been spinning off the record.

Well, the news that Morgan was standing down was public but her reasons were not. LK, as a journalist, tried to find out what they were and was told, by Morgan or someone close to her, that they were personal rather than policy, which she then tweeted out. Morgan subsequently publicly confirmed this.

I'm really not seeing the spin.

[ursus arctos]

You have to look at the tweet in the context of her body of work over the last few years (and particularly since Johnson became PM). She has decided to be a stenographer, and was once again taking dictation.

[johnr]

Pretty much, yeah.

And "supporter" is probably too strong a word, I just dislike them less than I dislike the others.

Thanks for the reply. (And I promise not to say anything that'll get you wearing the tin hat...)

[Duncan Gardner]

You have to look at the tweet in the context of her body of work over the last few years (and particularly since Johnson became PM). She has decided to be a stenographer, and was once again taking dictation

She reminds a bit of Condolcezza Rice, who as American Foreign Minister seemed to think she was Dubya's significant other rather than an over-promoted stooge. Never trust anyone who can't spell their own name. Or pronounce it (see current thread on footbaler Richard Keogh)

[Nocturnal Submission]

You have to look at the tweet in the context of her body of work over the last few years (and particularly since Johnson became PM). She has decided to be a stenographer, and was once again taking dictation.

But that's the problem. She's been characterised as such and, consequently, all her output is assumed to be suspect, which is grossly unfair.

She was booed by the audience when she tried to ask Corbyn a question today at a Labour event, a "perfectly legitimate question" according to the Daily Mirror Political Editor. Her treatment looks like bullying to me and I'm a little surprised that so many OTFers go along with it.

[Nefertiti2]

Her reputation is based on her behaviour for the past three years. It would be nice if that " taking politicians at their word" thing was a courtesy granted to the Labour leadership as well.

As for her giggling with Johnson it's highly unprofessional apart from anything else

[Duncan Gardner]

I'm not bullying her. Gently ridiculing at most. That ludicrous podcast pushing her as some sort of edgy comedian the last straw,

If I wanted a Scottish angle on current politics I'd get more sense from Crunchie McAllister

[Lucy Waterman]

It might be worth looking into the conventions of lobby journalism and how they work. You may end up disagreeing with them, but they are the status quo, and they explain why LK speaks the way she does.

i think there’s a useful Archive on 4 doc that explains it, but I’m sodded if I’m going to tackle the BBC Sounds App to find it.

[Lucy Waterman]

They don’t have the lobby system in the US, but I don’t believe it has resulted in greater transparency about politics for the public.