General Election, December 2019

[Lucy Waterman]

Yeah that’s a much better message. I still don’t see how Labour can urge a vote against a deal they’ve negotiated and the whole process seem credible, but that’s how to lose the next election, not this one.

[Nefertiti2]

Labour need to persuade people who switched to Lib Dem in the Euros to switch back. I don’t know that the best way to do that is to say “you should have known they were Tories”. They need to say that Labour can actually deliver on the things the Lib Dems only promise.

I think that's fair. Also (in the majority of constituencies) Labour won last time or came second. Unlike the Euros this isn't any form of PR. Labour also needs to get those people who didn't vote in the Euros to vote. That was slightly less than half of those who voted in the 2017 election

[Nefertiti2]

Yeah that’s a much better message. I still don’t see how Labour can urge a vote against a deal they’ve negotiated and the whole process seem credible, but that’s how to lose the next election, not this one.

Labour doesn't need to urge either way. Can say this is the best deal we've negotiated and let MP's have a free vote.

[Patrick Thistle]

Fewer people vote in European elections anyway and this year it seemed fairly pointless.

[Duncan Gardner]

Also (in the majority of constituencies) Labour won last time or came second

[Snake Plissken]

Apparently Brexit Party threaten to stand MPs in all seats unless Johnson goes to No Deal and WTO rules.

It came straight out of Farages mouth, so it might be bullshit, but interesting if so.

[Nocturnal Submission]

It's very interesting. They don't seem in any mood to compromise, at the moment at least.

[Freestyling buck wilding Stijn Stijnen]

Regarding voting for libdem, my primary reason for not wanting to do so stems from possessing a functioning long-term memory, casting my mind to not-so-long ago in how they acted as little more than enablers for the conservative party, how the vast majority of their members, once in power continued to act as enablers, and how their new leader voted for the vast majority of the policies and measures we have come to see as some of the more heinous carried out by the conservative party.

Pushing for banning plastic straws isn't going to make up for taking vital services away from the most vulnerable members of society, yet it did in some peoples minds. Brilliant.

To see the devastation caused by the more severe austerity measures, which for most manifested themselves via food banks and having vital benefits and services cut, of which I, family and many friends felt the brunt of renders me incapable of being able to take them seriously or to place any trust in.
I shan't be voting for lesser evils, that's an historic fools errand, I will try not to commit the sins of my fathers, but really, I cannot see how you could imagine voting for them, unless you've been lucky enough to have not had your life turned upside down over the past ten years, and not just by feeling a bit sad at how mean everything's become. Cue 'If only we could go back to 2012, and the olympics' when the air was sugar-free while also looking like a famous coca-cola advert.

The disconnection with the reality outside many peoples windows is stunning, yet telling.

[Satchmo Distel]

Farage has to keep himself relevant so he'll pull any stunt that gives him media coverage, but even he must realize that giving seats to Lab and Lib Dems by splitting the Leave vote in Tory marginals is a dumb move. Better for him to get a Tory govt then carp about the trade negotiations that would then take place in 2020, with a view to getting a No Deal on 31.12.2020.

I'd like to think that the Lib Dems are posing as Tory-lite because they are competitive in more Tory marginals than Labour ones but I truly can't be sure where Swinson's mind is at except that she is clearly Never Corbyn. This may mean that she'd countenance a Labour centrist leader but I truly don't know. We do know that she would have been happy to support Kenneth Clarke as caretaker leader, despite his 1990s austerity budgets as Chancellor.

[ursus arctos]

Your first paragraph would seem to assume that Farage has a larger purpose than the enrichment and aggrandisement of Nigel Farage.

Which I would suggest is an assumption that lacks any evidence.

[Lucy Waterman]

Swinson’s attitude of Never Corbyn is founded in the not unreasonable expectation that she’ll pick up votes from ex Labour voters who hate him. But she surely wouldn’t welcome a centrist Labour leader for the same reason - those voters would abandon her for that new Labour leader.

[E10 Rifle]

What was the Lib Dems' attitude to working with Brown and Miliband?

[Sporting]

Exactly.

Farage really couldn't care less about Brexit. It's a convenient prop for him.

[Guy Profumo]

Exactly.

Farage really couldn't care less about Brexit. It's a convenient prop for him.

I was just about to post Conrad Poohs has crawled out from the septic tank he infests to bother us once again.

[ursus arctos]

Not to derail the GE conversation but Murray - like a stopped clock - is sometimes right. He's very on the money wth regard to the Sacoolas/diplomatic immunity case.

VT is absolutely right about this (just as Nef is right about Murray's issues not being relevant to the obvious truth of the point he was making in this case). It is a story that has never made the slightest bit of sense to anyone with experience of how diplomatic relations actually work.

Murray on Sacoolas.

[Gangster Octopus]

I was just about to post Conrad Poohs has crawled out from the septic tank he infests to bother us once again.

Who?

[Guy Profumo]

Regarding voting for libdem, my primary reason for not wanting to do so stems from possessing a functioning long-term memory, casting my mind to not-so-long ago in how they acted as little more than enablers for the conservative party, how the vast majority of their members, once in power continued to act as enablers, and how their new leader voted for the vast majority of the policies and measures we have come to see as some of the more heinous carried out by the conservative party.

Pushing for banning plastic straws isn't going to make up for taking vital services away from the most vulnerable members of society, yet it did in some peoples minds. Brilliant.

To see the devastation caused by the more severe austerity measures, which for most manifested themselves via food banks and having vital benefits and services cut, of which I, family and many friends felt the brunt of renders me incapable of being able to take them seriously or to place any trust in.
I shan't be voting for lesser evils, that's an historic fools errand, I will try not to commit the sins of my fathers, but really, I cannot see how you could imagine voting for them, unless you've been lucky enough to have not had your life turned upside down over the past ten years, and not just by feeling a bit sad at how mean everything's become. Cue 'If only we could go back to 2012, and the olympics' when the air was sugar-free while also looking like a famous coca-cola advert.

The disconnection with the reality outside many peoples windows is stunning, yet telling.

Little more?

They were unapologetic tub-thumpers for some of the most egregious examples of Tory, and, by extension de facto their own policy.

For example, and by no means limited to

Bedroom Tax
Go Home Vans

[Sporting]

Farage is also suggesting that the House of Lords be abolished (stopped clock syndrome).

[Nocturnal Submission]

Farage and the Brexit Party's strategy is going to be fascinating to watch unfold.

Ideally he'd like to be able to stand down the bulk of the BP candidates and focus the party's money and active supporters on a few dozen North of England and Welsh constituencies that have no recent record of returning Tory MPs and where a non-Tory pro-Brexit party has a better chance of picking up disenchanted Labour voters. But there is no way that the Tories will enter into a pact, either formal or informal, with the BP.

So when Farage's bluff is called what's he going to do? If he doesn't back down, which he might well do, he'll surely scupper the Tories chances of a majority but for what ultimate purpose other than revenge for having his own plans undermined. And if that becomes apparent will his party's supporters stick with him?

[Freestyling buck wilding Stijn Stijnen]

Little more?

They were unapologetic tub-thumpers for some of the most egregious examples of Tory, and, by extension de facto their own policy.

For example, and by no means limited to

Bedroom Tax
Go Home Vans

Guy, I found myself becoming taken by emotion while writing that, so did make some attempt to rein it in... But yes, they kept handing matches to an arsonist, but they did tut a little bit while doing so, so vote for them!??

[Nocturnal Submission]

Who?

Farage-lookalike with dancing teeth.

It's a Monty Python thing.

[Freestyling buck wilding Stijn Stijnen]

With this Craig Murray chap, he's appeared on my twitter timeline, often with opinion pieces, but have also seen much by him that provides solid examples and evidence that adds up to undeniable truths being spoken of.
And while I'm ambivalent to him, purely by not being 100% aware of his personal timeline, would be happy to learn of much that he reports on from something like a, hmm, I don't know, an associated press that brings such stories to the fore.
That it is now left to people such as Murray to bring such things to light tells its own tale, and it isn't a good one. Not in the slightest.

[Guy Profumo]

Guy, I found myself becoming quite emotive while writing that, so did make some attempt to rein it in... But yes, they kept handing matches to an arsonist, but they did tut a little bit while doing so, so vote for them!??

But in the end went "you're going to try to do this anyway, and even though we can stop it in its tracks, but we're not going to, because our ministers put having their trotters in the trough and a more importantly a, sniff of power above principle"

[Snake Plissken]

I'd like to think that the Lib Dems are posing as Tory-lite because they are competitive in more Tory marginals than Labour ones but I truly can't be sure where Swinson's mind is at except that she is clearly Never Corbyn. This may mean that she'd countenance a Labour centrist leader but I truly don't know. We do know that she would have been happy to support Kenneth Clarke as caretaker leader, despite his 1990s austerity budgets as Chancellor.

The Lib Dems are on record as not being able to work with Ed Balls, Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband so I would guess the answer would be "No".

I saw somewhere that when it comes to tactical voting, the number of Tory held seats where tactical voting from Labour voters would put the LDs over the top is 8.

[Guy Profumo]

Farage-lookalike with dancing teeth.

It's a Monty Python thing.

A reference to the grinning / gurning headshots of Nige.

If you ignore the moustache the similarity is uncanny