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    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
    I don't see Meghan downplaying her blackness or claiming any kind of white privilege by choosing "person of colour" or "mixed"; self-categorization of someone with her ancestry is an entirely personal choice that nobody has the right to impose on someone else provided there's no implied derogation of people who make different choices.
    I have only seen Meghan refer to herself as a "person of colour".
    I agree with you, she has a right to categorise herself however she wishes.

    I think it is fair for me to judge her on what appears to be clear attempts to whiten herself up. whether it is the high exposure pictures (note how dark she looks in the Oprah interview compared to regular interviews), the nose jobs and the self description.

    Now, I sort of get it when she was an actress. The racial ambiguous look will probably open her up to more roles if she identified as someone exotic, a younger Jennifer Beals instead of a standard mixed Black/White lady .
    But all this soft shoeing around race smacks of a desperate attempt to try and get accepted and this has never ended up well as racist white people will still vehemently reject her and Black people will be pretty slow to come to her aid (as we can see).
    One thing me and you have in common is a keen love of social history, black people passing as white for better social standing (especially women) is a very big thing and there have been alot of books, plays and films about this. See the film imigtation of life.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...k-white-us-rac for more background.

    I agree with the rest of your post BTW.

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      https://twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1369049836474019851?s=21

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        Definitely William in some old-school bantz after a few too many pints of IPA, thinking he was chatting with "raghead" Harry, not woke-Harry.

        No sympathy for any of them, it's a prince and princess having domestic difficulties, try life in the real world. Brush away the tears and out on a brave face when you're facing a 10 hour shift, not when your limo is waiting outside.

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          No.

          It's a bit different when you're facing abuse in every newsstand, TV channels and most websites in the country, day after day and nothing you can say or do can stop it.

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            Originally posted by Mr Delicieux View Post
            I can remember seeing these articles being compared for the not exactly subtle differences in tone about Kate and the Meg last year and thinking that it was greasy, very greasy indeed.

            https://www.twitter.com/ellievhall/status/1367950484628201474
            Wow, he should really have married Phil Foden instead of Toisin Adabiyaro

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              Saw an interesting comment tonight that everyone posting those trite "Be kind" messages are now the people saying they don't believe Meghan ever really felt suicidal.
              Last edited by Patrick Thistle; 09-03-2021, 09:28.

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                Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                I have only seen Meghan refer to herself as a "person of colour".
                I agree with you, she has a right to categorise herself however she wishes.

                I think it is fair for me to judge her on what appears to be clear attempts to whiten herself up. whether it is the high exposure pictures (note how dark she looks in the Oprah interview compared to regular interviews), the nose jobs and the self description.

                Now, I sort of get it when she was an actress. The racial ambiguous look will probably open her up to more roles if she identified as someone exotic, a younger Jennifer Beals instead of a standard mixed Black/White lady .
                But all this soft shoeing around race smacks of a desperate attempt to try and get accepted and this has never ended up well as racist white people will still vehemently reject her and Black people will be pretty slow to come to her aid (as we can see).
                One thing me and you have in common is a keen love of social history, black people passing as white for better social standing (especially women) is a very big thing and there have been alot of books, plays and films about this. See the film imigtation of life.

                https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...k-white-us-rac for more background.

                I agree with the rest of your post BTW.
                Flicking through this photo gallery, I think she lightens up for the 'Suits' series (which may have been a decision made by the producers, that she acceded to) but I don't see it in her photos before and after the series:

                https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...ife-in-photos/

                It's also difficult to see how it would be possible for her to 'pass' now we have social media where a celebrity's ancestry is just a mouse click away. I can see how she'd pass to a 'Suits' viewer who does not research the actors but she's not going to pass as a royal spouse with a kid.
                Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 09-03-2021, 01:52.

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                  Her black father turned up in Series 2 of Suits and her character’s biracial identify was discussed.

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                    I mean, not just discussed as in “oh, wow, that’s your Dad”, “Surprised, huh?”; Rachel Zane had a lot of discussions around being a WoC, working in law, trying to get into Harvard, wanting to help black prisoners and the disadvantaged. Quite like Meghan, really.

                    There were a lot of black actors in Suits, mostly playing successful lawyers and other professionals. I doubt they’d have tried to lighten Meghan up at any point.

                    If I haven’t made my *point*, far from ?passing?, Meghan was shouting her blackness, or her biracial identity, from the rooftops, in her biggest role, over several series and several years.
                    Last edited by MsD; 09-03-2021, 02:24.

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                      Originally posted by MsD View Post
                      Her black father turned up in Series 2 of Suits and her character’s biracial identify was discussed.
                      Was her mom supposedly dead in that show? I don’t recall.

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                        No, very much alive and arguing with her about wedding plans.

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                          I have no memory of that.

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                            Originally posted by steveeeeeeeee View Post
                            No sympathy for any of them, it's a prince and princess having domestic difficulties, try life in the real world. Brush away the tears and out on a brave face when you're facing a 10 hour shift, not when your limo is waiting outside.
                            I don't think having your unborn child racially discriminated against by your in-laws and being driven to the verge of suicide and then having help to deal with that withheld is quite "domestic difficulties", no matter what mode of transport you are using. And revealing that you were suicidal is an immensely brave -- and helpful -- thing to do. How can one not have some compassion for Meghan?

                            Walking out of the royal family was brave, too. Even doing this interview, knowing the hatred and flush of death threats it would create, was an act of courage. Much as I hate the monarchy, and the system of inherited privilege generally, I have a certain admiration for these two people.

                            Originally posted by steveeeeeeeee View Post
                            Definitely William in some old-school bantz after a few too many pints of IPA, thinking he was chatting with "raghead" Harry, not woke-Harry.
                            The racism was a decision of policy, and therefore a serious deliberation. It wasn't casual racism but calculated bigotry against an unborn child. As has been pointed out, there are only three people who have that kind of leverage: the queen, Charles and William. Harry was warm about his granny, neutral about his brother, and full of hurt about his father. I think we have our most likely suspect.

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                              Meghan said they - not sure who they are, exactly - wouldn’t guarantee security or a title for Archie. What title was he supposed to have? The son of the second son of the prince of Wales? Seems pretty minor, but he’s not the first guy to be in that slot.

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                                It has to do with him formally being a "Prince" and thus entitled to security


                                Why is Archie, the young son of Prince Harry and Meghan, not a prince? That emerged as a murky question in the aftermath of the couple’s generally revealing interview with Oprah Winfrey.

                                Meghan said that the royal family had decided before he was born not to grant Archie the title and the designation His Royal Highness, suggesting that it was linked to their concerns about the color of the baby’s skin.

                                Under a royal convention, established by King George V in 1917, Archie was not given the title of prince at his birth, since he was a great-grandson — not a son or grandson — of the reigning monarch, Queen Elizabeth II. Were his grandfather, Prince Charles, to ascend the throne, Archie would automatically assume the title of prince, provided the royal family sticks to the rules.

                                But Meghan said that during her pregnancy, the royal family discussed changing the rules to deprive Archie of the princely title permanently. “I think even with that convention I’m talking about, while I was pregnant, they said they want to change the convention for Archie,” she said.

                                Around the same time, she said, there were “concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he’s born.”

                                At the time of Archie’s birth, in May 2019, British newspapers reported that Harry and Meghan had no problems with his not being a prince because they wanted their son to have as normal a childhood as possible. He would be known as “Master Archie Mountbatten-Windsor,” the double-barreled surname of Harry’s family.

                                In the interview, however, Meghan disputed this contention. The title itself was not important, but it entitles its holder to security protection, which she said mattered deeply to her and to Harry.

                                Under the convention, Prince William’s eldest son, George, was a prince at birth because, as the firstborn child of the firstborn child of the Prince of Wales, he is a direct successor to the throne. But the queen issued so-called “letters patent” that ensured that William’s other two children, Charlotte and Louis, were also a princess and prince at birth — something she did not do for Archie.

                                Meghan said she had viewed this as discriminatory treatment. She said she had objected to Archie’s not being a prince because “it’s not their right to take it away,” and because of security concerns. She expressed anger at “the idea of our son not being safe, and also the idea of the first member of color in this family not being titled in the same way that other grandchildren would be.”

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                                  I hope all of this sours the royal family for the Americans who fawn over them and think they are admirable. Hopefully once the queen dies (not that I'm wishing she dies, I don't care one way or the other) everyone that's left is so objectionable that our media can stop trying to force them on us.

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                                    The interview on CBS got 17m viewers. That’s about what NBC gets for Sunday Night NFL games. Oprah is getting good reviews. Of course.


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                                      Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                      It has to do with him formally being a "Prince" and thus entitled to security
                                      He should get security, not because he’s a prince but because he’s a potential target and he’s a target because of his relationship to this antiquated, brutal institution. It’s not like they can’t afford it.

                                      His title shouldn’t matter. But I just figured he was automatically Duke of something or other. He is, apparently, set up to be Earl of Dumbarton. So he’s got that going for him. Which is nice.
                                      Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 09-03-2021, 05:26.

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                                        Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
                                        I hope all of this sours the royal family for the Americans who fawn over them and think they are admirable. Hopefully once the queen dies (not that I'm wishing she dies, I don't care one way or the other) everyone that's left is so objectionable that our media can stop trying to force them on us.
                                        I don’t think it will stop. The fawning coverage will just be replaced by more gawking-at-a-trainwreck coverage.

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                                          Especially given the whole Disney Princess complex.

                                          Though the fascination of a certain kind of USian with the British monarchy predates that by decades.

                                          I remember watching Chuck's investiture as Prince of Wales on US network television in 1969.

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                                            Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                            He is, apparently, set up to be Earl of Dumbarton. So he’s got that going for him. Which is nice.
                                            That's pretty stingy. They could at least give him Motherwell or Kilmarnock.

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                                              Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                              Especially given the whole Disney Princess complex.

                                              Though the fascination of a certain kind of USian with the British monarchy predates that by decades.

                                              I remember watching Chuck's investiture as Prince of Wales on US network television in 1969.
                                              I think that’s losing steam. Most of the newer Disney princesses aren’t actual princesses.

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                                                It still is the brand, though.

                                                Which generates interest in "real" princesses.

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                                                  Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post

                                                  I don’t think it will stop. The fawning coverage will just be replaced by more gawking-at-a-trainwreck coverage.
                                                  Probably. And I suppose that the royal fans here probably dislike Meghan and see her as an interloper.

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                                                    Charles has wanted the Royal Family slimmed down for a while hasn't he? I'm sure I remember Andrew getting in a hissy a few years back about Charles' plans to remove his daughters titles once he becomes King. As the second son, Harry's kids would have the same status as Andy's do currently.

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