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    You do know there’s currently a whole bunch of memes/conspiracy theories doing the rounds atm showing all the Jewish paedos/alleged paedos, right?

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      Originally posted by G-Man View Post
      Having said that, a phrase like "the effectiveness of Jewish power in Washington" is a bit dodgy. How much that detracts from the central premise of the article, I'd not like to be the judge of.
      Mate, that is the central premise of the article.

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        As ad hoc says, why not say 'Israel's power'?

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          It's a deeply antisemitic article about Jews pulling the strings of American policy, even stretching to innuendo about 9/11. Its imagery is Jewish paedophiles getting state protection, etc, pretty much Stormfront memes.

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            Thank you Satchmo D.

            Observing whether any otf-er calls out an article like this is the canary in the mine for me.

            Radio silence from most and borderline defence from another has the little fella on his side coughing and wheezing as far as I see it.

            So fucking dark.

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              Kudos to Posty Webber. The AHT is a rum outlet from top to bottom, but then I guess if some need their world view confirming...

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                I'm not sure this thread is the place for the conversation, but like Posty Webber, I've always been very uncomfortable with the term "The Jewish State", even if it's a term used by Israel itself. It doesn't seem like just a sub-editorial way of not saying "Israel" too many times. It's just a massively loaded term.

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                  When I arrived in Tel Aviv airport, I was greeted with a sign saying Israel was the place to which Jews return from exile (or words to that effect). Obviously this would intimidate an Arab Israeli. So there is clearly an institutional drive by the nationalist right to portray itself as a Jewish state. The problem is that when the left uses the term, it implies that the entire world Jewish population supports the state or is accountable for it, which is clearly false, and that the state's Lebensraum expansionism is expressing some essential Jewish characteristic rather than having parallels with how settlers have acted across history, so that Jewishness is used as an ideological excuse for land theft like whiteness was used as an excuse in the US and Australia, with potentially genocidal consequences. America had Manifest Destiny, Israel has right of return. OTOH there are degrees of racism in those concepts and not every Israeli is cheerleading for genocide.

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                    It's not just that Israel self-describes or portrays itself as a Jewish state. It has legislated itself as being a Jewish state. It explicitly insists that it is by definition and in law a Jewish state. As far as I can tell, most Jews seem to support that or acquiesce in it. Surely that is not a controversial observation.

                    While it is very true that "not every Israeli is cheerleading for genocide" -- I have Israeli friends who very much are not -- the fact is that Israelis have over 70 years elected and re-elected governments that, without exception, are perpetuating the incremental genocide.

                    The parallel to apartheid South Africa applies (as so often it does). White South Africans elected and re-elected governments that perpetuated apartheid and land theft. While not every white person was a racist, the majority supported apartheid or acquiesced in it.

                    For that, white South Africa was isolated, including those who opposed apartheid.

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                      I don't think it's a good idea to use "the Jewish state" for two quite different reasons. 1 - as people above have said, the implication is that Israel's brutal crimes are somehow a function of its Jewishness ;and 2 - it's Netanyahu's preferred term because it is massively exclusionary and further marginalises all those Israelis who are not Jewish (not to mention all the millions under their control whose lives they destroy)

                      In short, it's both potentially anti Semitic and pro the Israeli far right

                      BTW I confess to have never coming across this hideous racist conspiracy theory equating Jews and paedophiles. Thanks for flagging it up.

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                        Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                        When I arrived in Tel Aviv airport, I was greeted with a sign saying Israel was the place to which Jews return from exile (or words to that effect). Obviously this would intimidate an Arab Israeli. So there is clearly an institutional drive by the nationalist right to portray itself as a Jewish state. The problem is that when the left uses the term, it implies that the entire world Jewish population supports the state or is accountable for it, which is clearly false, and that the state's Lebensraum expansionism is expressing some essential Jewish characteristic rather than having parallels with how settlers have acted across history, so that Jewishness is used as an ideological excuse for land theft like whiteness was used as an excuse in the US and Australia, with potentially genocidal consequences. America had Manifest Destiny, Israel has right of return. OTOH there are degrees of racism in those concepts and not every Israeli is cheerleading for genocide.

                        It's that the sort of thing that would get you labelled as an anti-Semite in certain circles?

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                          Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                          I don't think it's a good idea to use "the Jewish state" for two quite different reasons. 1 - as people above have said, the implication is that Israel's brutal crimes are somehow a function of its Jewishness ;and 2 - it's Netanyahu's preferred term because it is massively exclusionary and further marginalises all those Israelis who are not Jewish (not to mention all the millions under their control whose lives they destroy)

                          In short, it's both potentially anti Semitic and pro the Israeli far right
                          Agreed.

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                            My money is on self-inflicted in an attempt to bolster his appeal of the denial of bail

                            https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1154379743564894208

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                              Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post


                              It's that the sort of thing that would get you labelled as an anti-Semite in certain circles?
                              Lebensraum has been advocated on the Israeli right by Efraim Eitam, a government minister under Sharon. The term itself goes back to the 1890s.

                              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lebensraum

                              It does not have to involve ethnic cleansing but in Israel it has evolved in tandem with it.
                              Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 25-07-2019, 13:41.

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                                Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                My money is on self-inflicted in an attempt to bolster his appeal of the denial of bail

                                https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1154379743564894208
                                I went straight into conspiracy-land, wondering if it was an entirely fabricated story to make Epstein's life easier and this prevent him from testifying against powerful individuals.

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                                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                  My money is on self-inflicted in an attempt to bolster his appeal of the denial of bail

                                  https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1154379743564894208
                                  I was half expecting him to be found dead, it would be convenient for all if that happened.

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                                    Lebensraum has been advocated on the Israeli right by Efraim Eitam, a government minister under Sharon. The term itself goes back to the 1890s.

                                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lebensraum

                                    It does not have to involve ethnic cleansing but in Israel it has evolved in tandem with it.

                                    Maybe so, but it's a term which is heavily associated with Nazi Germany and would have been leapt upon by a number of parties. People may wonder why that word in particular was chosen, rather than a number of available alternatives.

                                    Just to be clear, I'm not accusing you of AS. I'm just say that the wrong choice of words can get you into a lot of bother in the current climate, as a number of people have discovered to their cost.
                                    Last edited by Nocturnal Submission; 25-07-2019, 14:11.

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                                      Epstein apparently found unconscious with neck injuries. Like TG said, could be very convenient for some people if he couldn't give any information.

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                                        Good work, Guy....

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                                          Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post


                                          Maybe so, but it's a term which is heavily associated with Nazi Germany and would have been leapt upon by a number of parties. People may wonder why that word in particular was chosen, rather than a number of available alternatives.

                                          Just to be clear, I'm not accusing you of AS. I'm just say that the wrong choice of words can get you into a lot of bother in the current climate, as a number of people have discovered to their cost.
                                          I agree with you to the extent that it could imply that the Israelis are imitating the Nazis, which is definitely not my view. So point taken.

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                                            Oh Dear
                                            https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...pstein-problem
                                            The plot thickens
                                            https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...cuments-secret

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                                              Bill Clinton is very specific about the number of times that he was on that plane. Really specific. That would want to stand up really well to scrutiny, because that is a very specific claim indeed.

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                                                Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                                                Bill Clinton is very specific about the number of times that he was on that plane. Really specific. That would want to stand up really well to scrutiny, because that is a very specific claim indeed.
                                                Right, but Clinton is calling it '4 trips where secret service were always present', but most of the really interesting trips had multiple legs to them over the span of weeks, some of which had no secret service on specific legs. So....it's as if he's hiding in his phrasing.

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                                                  I had never heard of Ghislaine Maxwell before just recently and her role and connections between the Clintons-Epstein and Trump-Epstein are really something.

                                                  Last Thursday's donor-only episode of Chapo Trap House (which feels very coke-driven) was about Epstein, and how much connections one can draw between him and so many things adjacent to governments and people with real power, and just how insane this can make you feel. I don't know how much, if any, of this conspiracy is true, but it feels like it could be.
                                                  Last edited by Incandenza; 29-07-2019, 13:36.

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                                                    We'll find out this week / next week when the unsealed docs are released. Gonna be lots of blanket denials from well-known "I just bumped into him once at a cocktail party" sorts.

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