The Andrew formerly known as Prince (was: Jeffrey Epstein thread)

[ursus arctos]

Indeed

I haven't seen the opinion, but it is reportedly quite tortured

One would think that any such agreement was invalid ab initio as violating fundamental public policy

[caja-dglh]

One lawyer, somewhere, is desperately looking around to find people to pat them on the back and cannot understand why they cannot find anyone.

[ursus arctos]

There are Cosby apologists out there

[DCI Harry Batt]

Spotted some already while looking around twitter for more info.

[ursus arctos]

The short version appears to be that the prosecutor gave Cosby criminal immunity in return for his waiving his Fifth Amendment rights and testifying in a civil proceeding brough pt by one of the victims.

Which "shocks the conscience", as does much too much of US law when the super rich are involved.

[DCI Harry Batt]

The short version appears to be that the prosecutor gave Cosby criminal immunity in return for his waiving his Fifth Amendment rights and testifying in a civil proceeding brough pt by one of the victims.

Which "shocks the conscience", as does much too much of US law when the super rich are involved.

I mean, WTF?

[Ginger Yellow]

Dumb question, why is a prosecutor involved in a civil suit?

[ursus arctos]

Not a dumb question at all, but I don't know enough of the background to give a solid answer.

The victim's civil lawyers may have asked the prosecutor if something could have been done about Crosby's taking the fifth, or s/he could have done it on her/his own motion. There might also have been some state party to the civil action, but that is much less common in the US than it is in civil law countries.

There are echoes of the Epstein deal here, and I'm rather surprised that this got all the way to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court without it being discussed more in the media.

[Satchmo Distel]

Why would Epstein kill himself when he perhaps had the same get out of jail card that Cosby has played?

[ursus arctos]

The courts reached in a different conclusion

Different agreement, different law, different jurisdictions

[S. aureus]

I can't help sympathizing with this reply:

https://twitter.com/BlyssLioness/status/1410282359988031491

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Did Bill Cosby not get his own thread on here?

Anyway, red faces at BBC TV News, where Michelle Fleury, in her report from Pennsylvania, said "Bill Clinton" instead of "Bill Cosby", without even realising she'd done it. Huw had to apologise for it when they finally cut back to the studio.

[Hot Pepsi]

What is the status(es) of the civil cases against him? Can he still be sued back to the Stone Age?

[ursus arctos]

I believe that there aren't any pending, but am not at all sure.

One question I had is whether there were other states in which the statute of limitations for criminal cases has yet to run. I don't believe that his crimes were limited to Pennsylvania.

[Hot Pepsi]

What a shitbag.

[Antepli Ejderha]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...droidApp_Other

Maxwell's lawyers try the same tactic as Cosby.

[ursus arctos]

I expect that she insisted that they try

I would be shocked if it worked

[Antepli Ejderha]

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1426688637945647105?s=19

No surprise that we're paying the legal fees for this alleged paedophile.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Prince Andrew's lawyer says NY case is baseless and non-viable - BBC News

Hmm, I can't help thinking that Andrew's lawyer saying the case against Andrew is baseless "because a 2009 legal agreement between Epstein and Virginia Giuffre released him from all liability" might, in Andrew's interest, have usefully been run past the PR people first. Not a great look, really. Or have they stopped giving a toss, on the basis that they realise 99% of the UK population already believe that he did what she is accusing him of?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

He's not a big man for considering other people's opinions. I suspect at this stage he is actively hostile to the idea. I wonder how a New York judge is going to look on the claim that giving the court papers to someone's police detail, who is preventing you from giving it to the person himself doesn't count.

[Patrick Thistle]

What's the difference between Emma Raducano and Prince Andrew?

Emma's not afraid of American courts.

(As seen on Facebook)

[Snake Plissken]

"We have never met and I have this signed agreement between us to prove it."

[ursus arctos]

They have been arguing this for a while, it being essentially the same defence that Dershowitz has been using.

It relies on the godawful settlement agreement that Epstein got in Florida, which reportedly release all of his associates from related claims (neither Andrew nor Dershowitz claim that they are specifically named, only that they are covered).

The issue has never been fully litigated and lots of observers think that it isn't the Get Out of Jail Free card they think that it is.

[NHH]

Would the plaintiffs have to establish the agreement didn't apply to Dershowitz/Andrew, or do they have to establish it does? And if the former, would that take the form of establishing it was a pile of bullshit that violated Federal Law and had no validity, or would they try to establish that regardless of the wider validity, it didn't apply to Dershowitz or Andrew as they weren't associates in the enterprise?

That latter argument is an intriguing one isn't it though - you can't sue us, because Epstein got a blanket exemption which covers everyone involved in this shit, which includes us.

[ursus arctos]

As it is a defence, the burden is on the defendants to establish the relevant elements.

The plaintiffs can (and will, should it go forward) claim in response that the agreement is void and thst even if it isn't, it isn't specific enough to cover the defendants.

I haven't seen the agreement (I'm not sure it has ever been made public), but it has always struck me as an absolute miscarriage of justice as described. I would also not be surprised if Dershowitz is in a better position than the prince, as he reportedly participated in its negotiation.