The disgraced corrupt racist liar thread:British PM edition

[Fussbudget]

No he didn't he said first and third.

first - Is Jewish

second - Is pro Israel

third - how her father made his money

[ursus arctos]

Can you really choose to be Jewish? As opposed to choosing to follow the faith?

I was going to mention this.

Reportedly, she was raised in an Orthodox family, but describes herself as non-observant. I don't think that one needs to convert to reject the religion of one's parents. Shedding ethnicity is ,ice more difficult.

[Nocturnal Submission]

No he didn't he said first and third.

first - comment re Corbyn

second - Is Jewish

third - Is pro Israel

fourth - how her father made his money

Again, ask, why concentrate on the first and third comments.

It's the second which should have been excised, and to a lesser extent the fourth - depending on how her own outlook has been framed by that of her father.

I think, though he'd have to confirm, that the "first" and "third" comments he was referring to were her faith and her father's criminality. He wasn't concerned with Jez's iPad.

[Duncan Gardner]

Ray- I see Jewishness mainly as a religion. Anyone can accept or reject it. I chose not to be Christian nor identify with its particular NI trappings. Very soon after I spent 3 years living in Palestine as a child, possibly not coincidentally

Ursus- I obviously can't easily hide being a white guy who can't pronounce words with a 'w' sound in the middle . In most situations where those traits aren't obvious my ethnicity is largely irrelevant.

[Snake Plissken]

I don't care about illegitimate children, and I don't think that it should be the straw that breaks the camels back. What should be that straw should that someone has taken out NDAs to prevent people talking about it. And the fact that it is an NDA and not a court injunction seems particularly insidious in a chummy, all in it together chaps, kind of way.

[Nefertiti2]

My dad liked rugby, doesn't mean I have to be tarred by his dreadful predilections. Give it up.

It's not quite the same though is it? I think the criminal activities of your father would be relevant.

Just as I think it's relevant that David Cameron's father was a professional tax avoider and Amber Rudd's father ran a chain of dodgy businesses -which Amber also participated in.

[Ray de Galles]

I don't care about illegitimate children, and I don't think that it should be the straw that breaks the camels back. What should be that straw should that someone has taken out NDAs to prevent people talking about it. And the fact that it is an NDA and not a court injunction seems particularly insidious in a chummy, all in it together chaps, kind of way.

The NDA is Raab, no?

[Ray de Galles]

Ray- I see Jewishness mainly as a religion. Anyone can accept or reject it. I chose not to be Christian nor identify with its particular NI trappings. Very soon after I spent 3 years living in Palestine as a child, possibly not coincidentally

Doesn't that leave us open to the "Anti-semitism isn't racism" claim though?

[ursus arctos]

Snake, I'm not sure I follow.

The Johnson NDAs are presumably part of a package that includes financial compensation for those bound by their terms.

[Nefertiti2]

If we’re talk about Corbyn supporter Ronnie O Sullivan would it be relevant to say that his father ran a chain of sex shops and was imprisoned for murder.

[Tactical Genius]

Snake, I'm not sure I follow.

The Johnson NDAs are presumably part of a package that includes financial compensation for those bound by their terms.

Indeed, and if both parties agree with this, then it really isn't anyone's business.
Unless of course he is going around lecturing people on the importance of fatherhood and condemning Adulterers?

[Duncan Gardner]

Ray- maybe it does. Again, I see anti-Semitism as a prejudice which I don't think I share (though I'm occasionally accused of it). If secular Jews see themselves as a race, fair enough. I might not agree but don't feel strongly enough to argue it with them.

[ursus arctos]

All "races" are social constructs.

Though racists are generally fiercely opposed to accepting that.

[Lucy Waterman]

It's not quite the same though is it? I think the criminal activities of your father would be relevant.

Just as I think it's relevant that David Cameron's father was a professional tax avoider and Amber Rudd's father ran a chain of dodgy businesses -which Amber also participated in.

Well if you participate in it, then it’s on you, isn’t it? Otherwise it’s just groping around for mud to sling at those who dare to ruffle the feathers of Corbyn. If someone rejects a criminal background and builds a successful career for themselves, good for them.

[Nefertiti2]

If one element in their building that career is the financial advantages gained from their parents’ criminal activities I think it’s entirely relevant.

or would you like to give me a list of when people’s parents and background are relevant and when they’re not.

i actually find her a fascinating figure since her style is very much about moral outrage- just as she did with Johnson above.

[Lucy Waterman]

Don’t be ridiculous.

[ursus arctos]

As stated, that is a rather harsh standard, Nef.

At what age would you have the righteous renounce (and denounce?) their parents?

Six? Eight?

[Lucy Waterman]

Given that she has renounced him, that’s presumably not enough to spare them the life of a pariah.

[Ginger Yellow]

As much as I don't want him to be Prime Minister, I would find it a bit depressing if the illegitimate children thing is the one thing that voters finally find unacceptable.

My point was more that voters haven't found it (or any of the other shit he does) unacceptable. I don't see how one more is going to make a difference.

[Fussbudget]

Well yes, there is that too. They'd probably just think he's a bit of a cad and "a character".

[Satchmo Distel]

The Cecil Parkinson of the era, except that Parkinson had to spend a few years in the sin bin.

[Lucy Waterman]

There is a good story of a journalist (I think it may have been Hugo Young) asking a group of Conservative Women what they thought of Parkinson's problems, in the summer of 83 - at a time when Thatcher was reportedly trying to salvage him. The CWs grimly replied "He's got to go", and he did within days.

But this was long before the "you're with us or you're against us" politics of today.

[Lurgee]

I’m currently taking a look at Emma Barnett, whose expensive private education was funded by trafficked sex workers.

With the dim winter's light of early morning, I recall you mentioning your own Jewish history recently.

I apologise for being overly-alert to anti-Semitism. Though i do wonder why you felt it necessary to mention her ethnicity. Just pointing out she was 'pro-Israel' would have been enough.

I still think it is unfair to hold her father's work against her, or even her private education. Not sure if she'd have had much choice in that. Of course, her behaviour since can be criticised. Though a journalist's job is to make politicians uncomfortable. Has she been notably biased in giveing rightwing and pro Israeli interviewees an easy ride?

[Lurgee]

No he didn't he said first and third.

first - comment re Corbyn

second - Is Jewish

third - Is pro Israel

fourth - how her father made his money

Again, ask, why concentrate on the first and third comments.

It's the second which should have been excised, and to a lesser extent the fourth - depending on how her own outlook has been framed by that of her father.

First comment by Nef about Barnet was about her being Jewish. Second was about Israel. Third was about her father's source of income.

Didn't think it was that hard.

[Sean of the Shed]

Snake, I'm not sure I follow.

The Johnson NDAs are presumably part of a package that includes financial compensation for those bound by their terms.

But as has been reported recently with NDAs issued by employers, the other party often feels compelled to sign the NDA as they don't have the financial wherewithal or the confidence to challenge their employers who were using them to cover up illegal behaviour and misconduct.