Lactose Intolerants

[MsD]

You're very confident. You don't know how good we were.

[ursus arctos]

The precinct that I pollwatched in 1972 went more than 80 percent for Nixon and I got spat on.

[MsD]

:-( u win.

I'm slightly off my nut now.

[ursus arctos]

Being off my nut would have made that pollwatching assignment more bearable.

[Lurgee]

A few votes in a comically meaningless election...

I was think more of examples from 2016, where a few votes in certain parts of the USA and a few votes in a certain referendum made quite a difference.

I agree the EU elections are fairly irrelevant.

Though that does not make assaulting people okay. I assume we're all against people trying to bully and intimidate politicians with threats and aggressive comments on twitter. Why are we 'down with it' in the real world? Is there some residual dim machismo at play here? Most of the victims we're discussing seem to be male. Are some of us unconsciously thinking they should be able to take it?

Nigel Farage as a martyr to the new man movement. Who'd have thunked it?

[San Bernardhinault]

Legally, it's assault. But in reality it does no physical harm and makes the fascists look ridiculous. I view it as different to assault that causes harm. On the whole, I can't find it in myself to strongly disapprove of anything that makes politicians and/or fascists look silly and doesn't do physical harm.

[Lurgee]

Legally, it's assault. But in reality it does no physical harm and makes the fascists look ridiculous. I view it as different to assault that causes harm. On the whole, I can't find it in myself to strongly disapprove of anything that makes politicians and/or fascists look silly and doesn't do physical harm.

Bullying and intimidation are generally considered harmful, even if they do not involve physical abuse. We're generally down on this toxic masculinity thing, but it still seems to pervade our attitude towards politicians.

Though I agree this would be an easier argument to make if it was someone less unpleasant than Farage.

[ChrisJ]

I don't think it's about toxic masculinity or double standards. The thing with fascism is that it qualitatively differs from other ideologies; the rules are different when dealing with fascists and their allies.

The concession I would make is that there may be tactical differences in how close an ally before physical options become legitimate. Of course it would be ideal if you could fight fascists with theoretical discourse, but they simply see that as weakness and are emboldened. And they never stick to theory. People die.

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

Though that does not make assaulting people okay. I assume we're all against people trying to bully and intimidate politicians with threats and aggressive comments on twitter. Why are we 'down with it' in the real world? Is there some residual dim machismo at play here? Most of the victims we're discussing seem to be male. Are some of us unconsciously thinking they should be able to take it?

You've posted a dozen times or more on this thread suggesting that milkshaking is political violence, but at no point have you acknowledged the more serious political violence carried out by the far right and the state.

We live in a country where gangs of black-shirted gestapo kick people's doors in at 5am with fuck all legal basis, haul them off to slave labour camps and then deport them to torture and death without giving them access to legal support. Where the government causes over 30,000 deaths a year due to cruel and arbitrary sanctions on disabled people.

There's a valid discussion to be had about toxic masculinity in anti-fascism, and also, i guess tactics, not doing stuff in a counterproductive way, but that needs to be had within a context of understanding anti-fascism as working-class self-defence not just against street fascism but against a murderous political system.

[NickSTFU]

You've posted a dozen times or more on this thread suggesting that milkshaking is political violence, but at no point have you acknowledged the more serious political violence carried out by the far right and the state.

We live in a country where gangs of black-shirted gestapo kick people's doors in at 5am with fuck all legal basis, haul them off to slave labour camps and then deport them to torture and death without giving them access to legal support. Where the government causes over 30,000 deaths a year due to cruel and arbitrary sanctions on disabled people.

There's a valid discussion to be had about toxic masculinity in anti-fascism, and also, i guess tactics, not doing stuff in a counterproductive way, but that needs to be had within a context of understanding anti-fascism as working-class self-defence not just against street fascism but against a murderous political system.

And the starting point of this discussion would be to cut down on the hyperbole.

[Gangster Octopus]

Aceeeed!