Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Öst3rREICH

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Öst3rREICH

    needs it's own thread, i think

    #2
    You did that already, with a better title

    Comment


      #3
      oops *senior moment*

      Comment


        #4
        This "its/it's" thing continues to be a source of trouble for many people.

        It's exists only and solely as a contraction of 'it is'. e.g. It's nice out. Yay, it's Friday. It's my new bike.

        Its is a possessive noun, so the possessive of 'its' is just 'its'. e.g. The dog has lost its bone. This needs its own thread. The classroom awaited its new teacher.

        This concludes the condescending pedantry portion of the knock-off Austria thread.

        Next week: when to say Richard and I vs Richard and me.

        Comment


          #5
          And afterwards let's debate "Everton is" vs "Everton are".

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by WOM View Post
            This "its/it's" thing continues to be a source of trouble for many people.

            It's exists only and solely as a contraction of 'it is'. e.g. It's nice out. Yay, it's Friday. It's my new bike.

            Its is a possessive noun, so the possessive of 'its' is just 'its'. e.g. The dog has lost its bone. This needs its own thread. The classroom awaited its new teacher.

            This concludes the condescending pedantry portion of the knock-off Austria thread.

            Next week: when to say Richard and I vs Richard and me.
            Thanks WOM. Please can you pass this on to my phone spellcheck software.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Sporting View Post
              And afterwards let's debate "Everton is" vs "Everton are".
              This is simply a regional difference in North American English, even though we would say "the Toffees are".

              Comment


                #8
                "Toffees" is a plural word. "Everton" is a singular word. So "Everton is" and "the Toffees are" would both be correct.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I concur that there's a logic to that, Patrick. But it just sounds wrong. "Oxford is going to be mid table rubbish next year" implies that the entire city is, rather than just the football team.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by WOM View Post
                    It's exists only and solely as a contraction of 'it is'.
                    ... and it has.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                      And afterwards let's debate "Everton is" vs "Everton are".
                      Everton is a district of Liverpool that produces the eponymous mints.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Furtho View Post

                        ... and it has.
                        Well spotted.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                          I concur that there's a logic to that, Patrick. But it just sounds wrong. "Oxford is going to be mid table rubbish next year" implies that the entire city is, rather than just the football team.
                          That's the nubs of the problem though. It sounds wrong (doesn't mean it is wrong). I get this all the time in work when writing about singular nouns composed of lots of individuals. "The subgroup are looking at xx policy."

                          A solution is to avoid is/are e.g "Oxford will be mid table rubbish next year." Or "Oxford can avoid being mid table rubbish next year with a bit of luck."

                          Comment


                            #14
                            It just sounds wrong because it runs counter to typical usage. The other way sounds just as wrong to North American ears, for exactly the same reason.

                            However, there is something about sporting culture ingrained in it. We just don't see our sports teams as singular entities in the same way as North Americans do. We have them as plural groups, yes all pulling towards the same common purpose, but comprised of distinct individuals. North Americans seem to view the individual contributions as more subsumed into a collective whole.* Rather like a military unit... So plural forms like 'are' or 'they' have a better cultural fit to British ears than 'it'.

                            * - even when they don't - a(n Ice) Hockey goaltender or a Baseball pitcher will be given a win-loss record as if it was their contribution alone that determines this, rather than something that relies on all their teammates putting up enough offence to overcome whatever the other teams scores off/against them. You will never see that for Football goalies.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I've wondered in the past whether it has to do with Spanish having had some influence on North American English. Teams are singular in Spanish.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                That might be overthinking it. Americans switch between singular and plural depending on the noun. If it's a singular noun - say Manchester or Albion, they'd say "Manchester is" or "Albion is". If it's a plural noun like The Padres or The Bills, they'd say "The Padres are". They're just being literal.

                                If there's a question, it would be why the English treat a singular noun as a plural. Why is it "United are"? I assume it's because we - as Janik says - treat them as a collective of individuals rather than a single indivisible entity. But I can't be sure.

                                Now I think about it, I can't remember how Americans treat bands - whether they're also literal. Do they say "Nirvana is playing at the Mancester Free Trade Hall tonight", and also "The Buzzcocks are playing at Jericho Tavern"? They might do.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  It's "Buzzcocks" without the article.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I think that we tend to treat bands as plural, even if it isn't obvious from their name.

                                    So, Parliament Funkadelic are at the Roxy next weekend. Though we would say that Parliament (or Congress) is in session.

                                    I thought that the North American practice was rooted in the fact that our teams tended to have nicknames from the early days of organised sports, whereas that wasn't the case in the UK. Though that may not be supported by evidence.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      American musician James Murphy weighs in.
                                       

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Yeah, but he's North American scum.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          I'm not sure I approve of plural bands without definite articles … Carpenters, Editors, Buzzcocks.

                                          Uttering "I'm off to see Carpenters tonight," makes you sound like you're from Yorkshire.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Stumpy Pepys View Post
                                            I'm not sure I approve of plural bands without definite articles … Carpenters, Editors, Buzzcocks.

                                            Uttering "I'm off to see Carpenters tonight," makes you sound like you're from Yorkshire.
                                            No, it makes you sound like you are doing a very poor impression of a Yorkshire accent.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Stumpy Pepys View Post
                                              I'm not sure I approve of plural bands without definite articles … Carpenters, Editors, Buzzcocks.
                                              What about bands that use 'Thee'? (yer Oh Sees, Midniters, Headcoats, Silver Mt. Zion Memorial Orchestra, Temple ov Psychick Youth, Shams etc.) They can all get to fuck, as far as I'm concerned.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Ginger Yellow View Post
                                                Yeah, but he's North American scum.
                                                I see what you did there.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Janik View Post
                                                  a(n Ice) Hockey goaltender or a Baseball pitcher will be given a win-loss record as if it was their contribution alone that determines this, rather than something that relies on all their teammates putting up enough offence to overcome whatever the other teams scores off/against them. You will never see that for Football goalies.
                                                  Although they do award the Golden Gloves for most clean sheets to the goalie, not the whole team.

                                                  Originally posted by beak View Post
                                                  What about bands that use 'Thee'? (yer Oh Sees, Midniters, Headcoats, Silver Mt. Zion Memorial Orchestra, Temple ov Psychick Youth, Shams etc.) They can all get to fuck, as far as I'm concerned
                                                  Thee Hypnotics are the only one I was aware of. And I think that was because there was already a band called The Hypnotics.

                                                  Comment

                                                  Working...
                                                  X