Having become a Lib Dem party member in 2016 entirely because of the Brexit issue, I've no problem with the Greens out-performing Lib Dems. I wish well to all pro-Remain parties, Lib Dems, ChUK, Greens, SNP and PC. And in particular, I think the polling is important ahead of the elections, to show Labour that they are losing support to Remain parties while there's still time for that to infuence the struggle within Labour between Remainers and Leavers. But I can't see Labour any time soon getting anywhere close to the whole-hearted and unambiguous support for a 2nd ref, and/or for a pro-Remain campaign in the event of a 2nd ref, to make them an acceptable option for me. I can't express my loathing for the likes of Ian Lavery strongly enough.
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It’s most important that the anti Brexit parties are defeated- also the chuka Gang in coalition with Orban, and the alib Dems whose support for austerity and the referendum led directly to Brexit.
[URL]https://twitter.com/annpettifor/status/1118820469174566914?s=21[/URL]
Last edited by Nefertiti2; 18-04-2019, 10:30.
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The Lib Dems were indeed massively responsible for Brexit because of their support for austerity, but I think blaming them for the referendum isn't accurate; it wasn't in the coalition agreement and was opposed by them and only came to pass because Cameron won a majority (in most part because they picked off the Lib Dem seats in the SW because the Lib Dems were dumb). The only people who bget a free pass in this are the SNP were the only party to vote against the Referendum Bill in 2015 - the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour all whipped to vote for it.
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Labour front-bencher Barry Gardiner (shadow Trade Secretary) gets to the nub of the issue: "Labour is not a Remain party"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...-gardiner-says
OK, thanks for clarifying. In which case, Labour can absolutely **** off. I will vote for a Remain party.
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Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View PostIt’s most important that the anti Brexit parties are defeated- also the chuka Gang in coalition with Orban, and the alib Dems whose support for austerity and the referendum led directly to Brexit.
[URL]https://twitter.com/annpettifor/status/1118820469174566914?s=21[/URL]
Brexit: 21
Labour: 20
Con: 12
Green: 6
Lib Dems: 4
SNP: 4
CHUK: 3
London: Brexit 2, Lab 2, Con 1, Green 1, Lib Dem 1, CHUK 1.
SE England: Brex 3, Lab 2, Con 2, Green 1, Lib Dem 1, CHUK 1.
SW ": Brexit 2, Con 2, Lab 1, Lib Dem 1.
East of England: Brex 2, Lab 2, Con 2, Lib Dem 1.
East Midlands: Brex 2, Lab 1, Con 1, Green 1.
West Midlands: Brex 3, Lab 1, Con 1, Green 1, CHUK 1.
Wales: Brex 2, Lab 1, Con 1 (unfortunately Wales not modelled separately, as Plaid surely safe here.)
NE England: Brex 1, Lab 2.
NW England: Brex 2, Lab 4, Con 1, Green 1.
Scotland: Lab 1, Green 1, SNP 4.
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Originally posted by NHH View PostThe Lib Dems were indeed massively responsible for Brexit because of their support for austerity, but I think blaming them for the referendum isn't accurate; it wasn't in the coalition agreement and was opposed by them and only came to pass because Cameron won a majority (in most part because they picked off the Lib Dem seats in the SW because the Lib Dems were dumb). The only people who bget a free pass in this are the SNP were the only party to vote against the Referendum Bill in 2015 - the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour all whipped to vote for it.
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- Jun 2017
- 2963
- A long way from Utopia.
- India, Ireland & numerous, numerous ABscenarios...
- Far too many, currently...
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View PostTactical voting in Ireland: rank the candidates (or parties) in order. Some of them are very likely to be elected, so your vote isn't wasted
And in England: vote for a party you don't like with candidates you've never heard of, whose chance of election will be determined by party not voters. Then sulk when said party continues to do things you greatly dislike. Many votes are for parties who don't get elected, and are thus wasted
It's generally better than FPTP but not exclusively so.
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Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
Nick Clegg campaigned for an in out referendum in I think 2008
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NI candidates so far:
Alliance: Naomi Long
DUP: Diane Dodds
Green: TBA
SDLP: Colum Eastwood
SF: Martina Anderson
UUP: Danny KennedyLast edited by Diable Rouge; 18-04-2019, 16:07.
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- Mar 2008
- 20753
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
@Nef- Lucas told the last Green Conference that supporting the 2016 Ref was her biggest mistake in politics
George C. I'm not generalising by saying that a tranferable system means that hardly any votes are wasted, and that as a result it allows genuine tactics, as opposed to picking only one party that you dont support. But go ahead, give me one example where FPTP is better- and bear in mind that even if an MP gets 75%, thats 25% wasted. In almost every seat its much more than thatLast edited by Duncan Gardner; 18-04-2019, 14:29.
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- Mar 2008
- 20753
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
Thanks GO
@DR: as previously mentioned, Unionism overall will get very close to 2 quotas (50%+1), and tend to transfer to each other. So the UUP should get the 3rd seat unless Squeaky Jim Allister stands and ups his personal vote
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Nef, your argument is just a desperate attempt to muddy the waters about the fact that Lib Dems are fully supporting the Remain movement and large parts of Labour are pro-Brexit. Your last point is utterly ridiculous. Cameron's failed gamble of including a referendum in the 2015 manifesto was largely based on his assumption that the Lib Dems would save him from having to have one by refusing to accept one as part of post-2015 coalition renewal negotiations. His gamble backfired when, against his expectations, the Tories got an absolute majority at the 2015 election, this making the Lib Dem's known hostility to such a referendum academic.
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As did the fact that the LibDem vote collapsed in 2015 – which, by contrast, was in line with everyone's expectations – and they'd have been in a much weaker position in any coalition negotiations than they were in 2010, if they'd been in a position to enter them at all.
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This is ludicrous Nef. BY all means drop buckets of shit on the Lib dems for their frankly appalling approach to coalitions, or their ineptitude to see the Tories would eat them for breakfast, but you simply can't make any linkage between Clegg's ratification referendum promise (a norm in very many EU members) and the in-out referendum Cameron offered. Clegg's a cunt for sure, but it serves no good end to add bollocks to the charge sheet.
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Portugal continues to be an island of left strength:
http://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1118966924002639878
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