European Elections 2019

[Guy Profumo]

Gina Miller's 'RemainUnited' seems to be getting a load of traction. She's advising people to vote tactically Lib Dem everywhere in England, which seems - to my mind anyway - to miss the fundamental point in Farage et al aren't getting joy because of a split opposition, but because under a d'Hondt system, as long as people vote for them, they'll get a certain number of seats regardless.

The upshot of the Lib Dem inclined Ms Miller's work seems to be that the Lib Dems will get more votes, at the expense of the Labour Party (whom Ms Miller thinks are a greater threat than Brexit) or the Green Party (who Ms Miller seems to ignore) or the Tigs (a stopped clock being right twice a day and all that). Funny that.

How can you vote tactically under PR?

Doesn't that undermine one of the key articles in the LibDems manifesto argument for wanting to introduce it?

[Diable Rouge]

How can you vote tactically under PR?

Doesn't that undermine one of the key articles in the LibDems manifesto argument for wanting to introduce it?

You transfer to the party/candidate that's next closest, ideologically speaking, to your own, and so on down the ticket - i.e, in Ireland, the various centre-left parties tend to transfer to each other (Lab, Greens and Soc Dems), and traditionally, Fine Gael and Labour would also do, as their combined vote usually equalled FF.

[Diable Rouge]

Of course, the problem with D'Hondt is that you get only one vote, but even then, it depends on how parties are performing by region - i.e. in London, both Greens and Lib Dems can conceivably win MEPs, but the Greens might be stronger in one Midlands region (to give an example), with the Lib Dems faring better in the other.

[Patrick Thistle]

I read up on Plaid.

So they are backing a second referendum with a desire to see the UK stay in the European union and if there is a Brexit, then want an Independence referendum for Wales.

I'm all for that. So I'm voting for them. Bring on the Wexit.

[Duncan Gardner]

The main problem with d'Hondt is that your vote isn't transferrable and so is more likely to be wasted.

As DR mentioned the Midlands. I would much rather boost the Green vote rather than waste it on the poss of a LibDem getting in. Partic if they keep lying about the Greens turning down a deal. Which is pointless anyway as above, but still

I haven't voted in NI since 1984 but just supposing
1 Green
2 Alliance
3 UUP
4 SDLP

[Guy Profumo]

You transfer to the party/candidate that's next closest, ideologically speaking, to your own, and so on down the ticket - i.e, in Ireland, the various centre-left parties tend to transfer to each other (Lab, Greens and Soc Dems), and traditionally, Fine Gael and Labour would also do, as their combined vote usually equalled FF.

That's STV rather than flat PR, isn't it?

[DCI Harry Batt]

I'd be more likely to vote Green if they clearly rejected any kind of lash-up with the Liberals.

[Guy Profumo]

How can you vote tactically under PR?

Doesn't that undermine one of the key articles in the LibDems manifesto argument for wanting to introduce it?

Or how can you vote with any conscience for the LibDems either.

Or for anyone not unequivocally opposing Brexit for that matter.

[Nocturnal Submission]

All this tactical voting advice seems to be based on the premise that, after the votes are counted, everyone is just going to look at seats won and then declare winners and losers. But I'd have thought that share of the popular vote is going to be mightily important too and as LD, Greens, ChUK, SNP and PC are all going to go in the same column, and there are legitimate party political strategic issues to be considered, there must be a lot to be said to just voting for your genuine first choice.

[Duncan Gardner]

Excellent point from the Chelsea jury

[Guy Profumo]

Which is what I intended to do anyway.


what with the non-Green Remainers being too toxic and apologists for Thatcherite rhetoric to contemplate voting for

LTV that they are.

[Diable Rouge]

Which is what I intended to do anyway.


what with the non-Green Remainers being too toxic and apologists for Thatcherite rhetoric to contemplate voting for

LTV that they are.

Just in England, of course - no such issues with either SNP or Plaid, to the best of my knowledge.

[Lang Spoon]

According to Slab, we should Never Forget the Nats are responsible for Fucking Thatcher after withdrawing confidence and supply from Callaghan's shower in 79 post Assembly Ref knife twist. That Big Jim also lost votes from the Libs and some Labour MPs is of no import but.

[Nefertiti2]

Subtitles please

[URL]https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/1128001707353493505?s=21[/URL]

[Lang Spoon]

Nef, the Scots Labour Branch Office keep harping on about how the SNP Brought Down Callaghan's Govt (ignoring the other parties and MPs that withdrew their confidence) and ushered in Thatcher, after Big Labour thwarted a Scottish assembly using the 40% of electorate had to vote yes rule after previously intimating they wouldn't invoke the clause. (An amendment St Robin Cook got his mate to table). Part of their Tartan Tories narrative.

[Jimski]

Jesus, I'm getting sick of the media obsession with reducing politics to a simplistic Remain v Leave, as though nothing else matters at all . And as though these Euro elections are some sort of referendum, so that you *have to know exactly where a party stands and nuance is not allowed*.

[Diable Rouge]

Someone has done a regional map based on recent polls:

[Diable Rouge]

For a colour-blind cove like myself, the contrast between buff and green could have been better.

[E10 Rifle]

It's absolutely daft to say that the polling numbers for this (likely ill-attended) election give us a clear picture on where the percentages stand for a Leave/Remain referendum. It's just more fuel for the "this story proves all my opinions are correct" brigade who currently dominate the debate on all sides.

Also, we can't be running scared of a general election just because polling numbers for Farage are currently high. Their high for the far-right in most of Europe at the moment - does that mean we should cancel elections there too?

A general election's still the best way of shifting the parliamentary arithmetic on Brexit, and of course of getting rid of this absolutely callous shitshow of a government.

[DCI Harry Batt]

There's quite some distance between agitating for an additional election and cancelling an existing election, E10.

[E10 Rifle]

True, but I can't see how we get out of where we are now without one pretty soon.

[Diable Rouge]

True, but I can't see how we get out of where we are now without one pretty soon.

The good news is that as long as Farage acts as a spoiler, it pushes Labour into overall majority territory - consistent across all polling companies, but this is the most recent example.

[wingco]

I'm fascinated by the currently-touted, quite convincing argument that when a Farage-led initiative like the Brexit Party arises, it knocks significant percentage points off the Leave vote as a whole.

Anyway, as an ardent Remainer, I'll be voting Labour. Not convinced about the merits of doing otherwise, especially given the positive impact Labour MPs could have within the EU, in terms of alliances, etc.

[E10 Rifle]

Yep. Labour are signed up to the pretty progressive European Socialists manifesto for the elections, drafted last year. Even if it's only a psychological boost, all should be done to counter the hard right with a good left vote across the continent.

We might as well act as if we're going to remain in the EU, which, by accident or design, we may well do.

[Diable Rouge]

I'm fascinated by the currently-touted, quite convincing argument that when a Farage-led initiative like the Brexit Party arises, it knocks significant percentage points off the Leave vote as a whole.

Anyway, as an ardent Remainer, I'll be voting Labour. Not convinced about the merits of doing otherwise, especially given the positive impact Labour MPs could have within the EU, in terms of alliances, etc.

Makes sense in terms of solely seeking the purest possible Brexit actually serving to push EEA-inclined Leavers closer towards Remain.