Worst Ever PM?

[Satchmo Distel]

Etienne floated this topic on the Brexit thread and I thought it needed to stand alone - May versus..."Lord North, Chamberlain, Eden"?

I'd rule out PMs from the era when monarchs still had real power so interfered in their decisions. Chamberlain was perhaps stalling for time in 1938 knowing the UK economy and armament level wasn't quite ready; thus IMHO his error was more forgivable than he is normally afforded. Eden is the closest to May, sticking to a plan that was clearly irrational and destroying the UK's credibility globally for at least a generation. OTOH he might be a bad omen given that the Tories had a successful few years under his successor before the wheels fell off in 1963.

Douglas-Home was piss-poor but was given a bad hand and only had the job a few months. Comparable to May in that he was given the job in extremely difficult times for his party but May still seems worse given that she's been repeating the same errors for nearly 3 years.

[ooh aah]

Cameron of course is hugely responsible for this mess, but I really do think May's bungling does make her worse than him.

[elguapo4]

I think Cameron's pure cynicism and cowardice gives him the nod ahead of May, of the others I know, Eden would have to be up there for Suez, probably the biggest military and diplomatic disaster in modern British history (Charles 2nd losing the fleet to the Dutch is probably worse), in Ireland, Brian Cowan stands head and shoulders above everyone else, although he was handed a poison chalice by Bertie Ahern he didn't have to take it.

[tee rex]

If May had been competent, Britain would have had a 'better' Brexit. But that is all.

Failing (dismally) to soothe the patient's wounds is still not as bad as inserting the knife. So Cameron, er, "wins". For what little it's worth (zilch).

Suez was a disaster but adjusting to post-imperial reality was always going to happen, so Eden was failing to see an inevitable future, not actively choosing a future, which Cameron did and didn't have to.

[Satchmo Distel]

We used to say John Major was shit but every Tory party leader since him has been far worse, and also worse than his/her Labour opposite number*; e.g. Brown losing to Cameron didn't reflect the quality of the leaders - Labour had just been in power too long and Brown carried the can for the financial collapse.

Corbyn has been better than May at papering over the divisions in his party and pursuing a Brexit policy that unites the centre ground more or less.

*Miliband may be the exception simply due to leading Labour to its heaviest post-80s defeat.

[Amor de Cosmos]

It depends really on what type of personality you think constitutes "bad." Eden was weak, May is stubborn, I'd throw in a vote for Balfour's random WTF'ness. Arguably the Balfour Declaration has had the most tragic and long-lasting consequences of any made by a British politician in the last century and a half and, as far as I can tell, it came pretty much out of his ass.

[Etienne]

I forgot the Duke of Wellington in my earlier list. Great general, terrible politician.

[Snake Plissken]

I'd go with May over Cameron, though it is a close run thing. Cameron was an arrogant fool who has never considered the consequences of anything in his life. But every single one of Mays actions ever since becoming PM have made a bad situation worse and not only has she not learned from any of them, she's doubled and tripled down. Even Cameron, in this situation, would have at least tried to find a compromise.

[Central Rain]

Balfour was Foreign Secretary at the time of his declaration. His time as PM was over a decade earlier.

Rosebery had a pretty terrible and brief spell in office. Apparently a very able man in many ways but quite difficult to be a good PM when you don't really like politics.

[hobbes]

Thatcher, obviously. Everything since has been her fetid legacy.

[WOM]

You're lumping in malice with stupidity and incompetence now...

[treibeis]

Thatcher, obviously. Everything since has been her fetid legacy.

hobbes is right.

[Sporting]

I agree

[Snake Plissken]

So, is the worst PM the most malicious or the most incompetent? To me, it would be the latter.

[WOM]

Me too.

[treibeis]

So, is the worst PM the most malicious or the most incompetent? To me, it would be the latter.

Godwinism: Hitler wasn't the worst German leader, then.

[hobbes]

Worst to me would be most damaging. Thatcherism is still damaging the UK even now.

[treibeis]

Worst to me would be most damaging. Thatcherism is still damaging the UK even now.

hobbes is right.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Balfour was Foreign Secretary at the time of his declaration. His time as PM was over a decade earlier.

Sure. I guess I was including someone's entire political life, not just their time as PM.

[Patrick Thistle]

Thatcher would be seen as a moderate remoaner now. Arguably the economy was in the shit in 1979 and change was needed. I don't advocate what Thatcher did but at least she did something.

Cameron pursued an unnecessary ideological agenda of austerity that has been responsible for thousands of deaths in a pogrom against the disabled and dispossessed. Under his watch the home office developed a hostile approach to non whites that culminated in the Windrush scandal. And he created the Brexit scenario with a terrible referendum then fucked off rather than deal with the consequences.

May had been stubborn and toxic but her enemies include George Osborne so she can only be 99.999999999999999% evil. Pigfucker was besties with Osborne.

So I vote Cameron.

[Diable Rouge]

Lloyd George's incompetence and malevolence as PM tend to be overlooked because of his reforms as Chancellor, but his record in the main office proved disastrous on numerous levels - dragging feet on franchise and social reforms caused the progressive vote, which had traditionally been Liberal, to switch permanently to Labour, as did the internal wrangling with Asquith, which lasted over a decade. His handling of events in Ireland not only converted the population to hardline republicanism, but also cemented permanent partition, when unionists themselves might have opted into a federal arrangement in earlier years.

Internationally, ignoring T. E. Lawrence's advice led to the crystallisation of Middle Eastern boundaries, with the legacies that remain to this day, the invasion of Turkey ultimately led to his demise, and C. J. Sansom informs us that he was an ardent admirer of Hitler in his latter years.

[Patrick Thistle]

Also, unforgiveable, Cameron created the situation where I find myself siding with Ken Fucking Clarke!

[Satchmo Distel]

Godwinism: Hitler wasn't the worst German leader, then.

I'd dispute that Hitler was competent at running the state. Other people did that for him. His skill was in having a genocidal, imperialist vision that he was able to build a movement around. Even there, though, he was aided by the massive grievances that came out of WWI and the desire of all classes to blame the Jews.

But worst German leader must be Hindenberg, who gave him the throne.

Thatcher was competent at dividing and ruling the working class by selling off council houses and demonizing unions. Was she competent economically? Dunno, it's impossible to know whether she just got lucky that the economy was picking up around 1982-83 in enough areas to enable her to paper over the massive rise in poverty and unemployment elsewhere. She clearly wasn't competent after 1985 when she started losing key ministers like Heseltine and Lawson and then finally losing it completely over the Poll Tax and Europe.

I'd disagree with hobbes to the extent that you can't let Major, Blair and Cameron off the hook just because they chose to continue Thatcher's legacy. The fact is that they had a choice; they could have changed direction but chose to keep going down that vile path. They have to own that historically and it makes them at least as bad.

[jwdd27]

Is this "worst PM since the Premier League began"?

Because the answer is Thatcher. Being competent at doing evil does not make you good.

[Central Rain]

Sure. I guess I was including someone's entire political life, not just their time as PM.

Yeah, not having that

Seriously though, there have been a few who were reasonably successful in the rest of their careers but not up to the top job so I think it would skew things a bit if we take the long view.