Newport West by-election

[Duncan Gardner]

For the reason I mentioned, or just generally?

[Nocturnal Submission]

That's interesting about Jenny Jones, Dunc. Didn't know that or, if I did, I'd forgotten. Are there any other high profile Green Leavers?

[Duncan Gardner]

Not really. There aren't many high profile Greens as I mentioned

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Caroline Lucas must be worth a percentage point or two for the Greens. She is almost as impressive for her role as the other English party leaders are unimpressive for theirs. (Well, not compared to May, I suppose, you'd need to be superhuman to be the mirror image of her.)

[Nocturnal Submission]

The first time I came across Caroline Lucas was in a TV documentary about the workings of the EU or the European Parliament or something. Bright and pleasant, she made a really good guide, as did her fellow MEP on the programme. He was a Liberal Democrat MEP called Nick Clegg. Wonder what happened to him?

[DCI Harry Batt]

For the reason I mentioned, or just generally?

Generally. Though supporting the racist campaign to vote to leave the EU is enough on its own.

Also I can't remember why I took a dislike to her years ago. So let's stick with the above. And joining the Lords.

[Duncan Gardner]

@EEG & NS: agreed, a lot of our support (both voters and members) is down to Lucas

@TT: I resisted the appeal for applicants to join JJ In the Lord's. My handle would have combined mild term of abuse for opponents with street played in as a child- Baron Yahoo of Lilliput (site of Swift's old house)

[DCI Harry Batt]

She's way too TERF-friendly, as much of the GP seems to be.

[Duncan Gardner]

Most of them/ us are warned off the issue by recent rows.

Anyway back on topic to Casnewydd. Old Neil is a creepy looking cove, what?

[DCI Harry Batt]

Yeah - not good enough, though, that.

Hamilton? Always has been. Like a lot of Tory MPs.

[Duncan Gardner]

TT: as has been said here more than once, set an unrealistically high standard, and people won't try, let alone reach it.

As you may know, Lucas was recently criticised by Trans activists in the party, after calling for calm when one colleague called another a Terf cunt. Basically everyone risks being drawn in, even you perhaps

[DCI Harry Batt]

I'm not surprised if she was criticised for "calling for calm". The idea that being polite is what's important is a very dangerous one, and one which tends to put you on the wrong side, as a very rough rule of thumb.

As for me, I couldn't give a toss if people think I'm "drawn in" whatever that might be supposed to mean.

I'm happy to leave it there for this thread, if you're happy not to respond.

[Duncan Gardner]

TT: by

[Duncan Gardner]

TT: by "drawn in" I meant merely that eventually, even you might be accused of transphobia/ TERF tolerance/ whatever...

I think politeness/ niceness are over-rated as virtues in politics, but they aren't a vice

For want of a better term, Lucas even more than you and I is big and ugly enough to take some stick from opponents

The Green Party story in this by election is that our deputy leader finished 6th in her home town. Obviously district councillors are more impt to us but still disappointing

[delicatemoth]

Amusing fact about Natalie Bennett - she follows masses of low-follower weirdo anti-trans Twitter accounts, the freaky bot-type ones. Every time I see one, I see 'Followed by Natalie Bennett', it's hilarious. She never RTs them or anything. I might write a song called 'Followed By Natalie Bennett'.

Most of them/ us are warned off the issue by recent rows.

It's good to remember that part of the 'issue' is whether or not trans people should be treated as full human beings, so it's important to respect all sides and stay calm. The other part of the issue is the right using transphobia as a base to push broader anti-LGBT sentiment - both C. Lucas and Labour's J. McDonnell have spoken to Woman's Place, an organisation previously hosted in the HoC by an anti-abortion, anti-feminism Tory MP (can't remember his name). There are links between the US religious right and anti-trans groups here. Actual 'progressives' should be opposing all this, not bothsidesing it, but I guess it's the same sort of dynamic that leads to the SWP remaining welcome at left events and having Labour people on their platforms. Anyway, if trans people are thrown under the bus then someone else will be next.

Sorry for the diversion, but Dunc's reference to 'the issue' irked me (I know it was unintentional) and I thought I'd try and explain a bit rather than getting snippy.

[Duncan Gardner]

@DM: hearing 'Living Next Door to Alice' as the tune. Go for it

I tend to refer to almost every discussion as part of a [broad] issue, but I'm not putting any limits on any issue, nor I hope turning a blind eye to any intimidation

Thanks for the other detail (and gossip)

[George C.]

Amusing fact about Natalie Bennett - she follows masses of low-follower weirdo anti-trans Twitter accounts, the freaky bot-type ones. Every time I see one, I see 'Followed by Natalie Bennett', it's hilarious. She never RTs them or anything. I might write a song called 'Followed By Natalie Bennett'.

Ha. Bennett strikes me as a reasonably pleasant person, but terrible terrible politician.

By quite some way the worst public speaker I"ve heard live, had she ever been PM, she would win that thread hands down.

Her tone of delivery is shockingly poor, better suited as an Election agent?

[delicatemoth]

I think she's most comfortable in local campaigning. Most of her tweets are about trees in Sheffield. I liked her when she spoke up for unemployed people on TV, that should be a very low bar but nowadays it isn't.

[Guy Profumo]

I think she's most comfortable in local campaigning. Most of her tweets are about trees in Sheffield. I liked her when she spoke up for unemployed people on TV, that should be a very low bar but nowadays it isn't.

No they're not.

A goodly number are, but Natalie Bennett is a lot more active (certainly in terms of Twitter) than that.

[Diable Rouge]

Welsh political polling suggests centre parties have significant support there for both Westminster and the Senedd, but that the division of votes between the Lib Dems and ChUK ultimately spoils returns for both.

[Patrick Thistle]

The high proportion of Plaid voters in Newport West supporting Leave is muddied a bit by a) there being so few of them in Newport, and b) Plaid's demographic in the cities being people wanting to cast a protest vote. I wouldn't count city votes for Plaid as indicative of membership or even supporters of the party. I haven't seen their literature for this by election, but all the Plaid literature I get through the letterbox for other elections is just attacks on Labour, so they will pick up the fed up with Labour vote who don't want to vote Tory or UKIP.

The demographic breakdowns on the other page showing so much Labour support for Remain... is that replicated in other areas? Has anyone told Jeremy?