Nothing on Amanda Knox?

[Central Rain]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Sam Kelly wrote:

Central Rain wrote:

Way too much about this woman. OTF is one of the few refuges from this story.

If it's any consolation, every other thread on OTF still is.

Sorry had just come to this thread from reading a lot of truly depressing comments about this. Wasn't attacking you for starting the thread.

[garcia]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

agree with ursus and berbaslug that the italian justice system looks a complete fucking mess. bit unfortunate that she's done four years in prison and will spend the rest of her life under the shadow of suspicion if there wasn't really a case against her.

the objections that a black man has been made to carry the can don't make much sense to me. maybe he really did it?

[ursus arctos]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Well, she accused a different black man (her then employer) of having done it, which led to his life being hell for several months before he was able to clear himself.

So she was clearly guilty of a type of defamation/false testimony/malicious prosecution, which Italian criminal law classifies as defamation, and which carries a standard sentence of three years.

That was the conviction that was upheld yesterday, as virtually everyone agrees it should have been.

I'd agree that Guede's skin colour is likely irrelevant to the outcome, but Knox's (and, more importantly, her nationality and financial resources) clearly were relevant.

BTW, the prosecution is going to appeal the reversal (another wonderful feature of the Italian judicial system).

[garcia]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

right, i didn't follow the case that closely. what was her false accusation based on? as for the prosecution's appeal, if she's back in america, what's the point? it's not like she's going to be extradited?

[Flynnie]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

She accused this guy of doing it...he sued and won a judgment.

I don't think there is much doubt Guede did it. He's got a lot of physical evidence against him and his story is even more unconvincing than Knox or Sollecito's.

but Knox's (and, more importantly, her nationality and financial resources) clearly were relevant.

Aye, both for and against her (certainly her nationality counted against her, I don't think she gets half the crap she does in Italy if she was a local girl).

Her family is not loaded. Well-off, thanks to her dad being a Macy's VP, but nothing truly extravagant, and her dad's said several times they are all but destitute due to her legal bills. Life savings gone, both her parents' homes (they're divorced - her mum's a teacher) remortgaged, grandma's house remortgaged.

In that sense anybody who throws stones at her for going on Piers Morgan or Baba Wawa is an idiot, because she'll pretty much have to do the TV rounds and the book deal just to claw back the money her family's spent in trying to secure her acquittal.

[Duncan Gardner]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Hofzinser wrote:

the Knox family and the Kercher family, and yet, understandably of course, the former are convinced of Amanda Knox’s innocence and the latter convinced of her guilt

Or they're thinking one thing and saying another, possibly?

Agreed the law should be dispassionate.

[Hofzinser]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

If the Kercher family thought she was innocent they would surely say so – why wouldn’t they?

And if the Knox family thought she was guilty when there really do seem to be grounds for genuine doubt even for impartial observers then that would be truly astonishing.

[ursus arctos]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

garcia, as far as Knox is concerned, the appeal has to do with saving face, not actually incarcerating her. It obviously has the potential for a much more direct personal effect on Sollecito.

[Duncan Gardner]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Hofzinser wrote:

If the Kercher family thought she was innocent they would surely say so – why wouldn’t they?

As you suggested, they aren't likely to be dispassionate. I was thinking more that if they're- say- 80% sure she's guilty, it would be understandable if they exaggerated that to 100% in the absence of other credible suspects.

And if the Knox family thought she was guilty when there really do seem to be grounds for genuine doubt even for impartial observers then that would be truly astonishing

They may know something- ie, what AK has told them- that impartial observers are unaware of.

[WOM]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Sollecito has said he'd like to just blend in and disappear into a quiet life without being recognized. Um...yeah...that'll happen.

Both of them had better strike while the iron's hot and make their nut while they have the chance. I suspect a normal, quiet life is a long while away.

[Hofzinser]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

if she's back in america, what's the point? it's not like she's going to be extradited?

Do the US and Italy not have an extradition treaty? And if they do, and if Italy say to the US that they have a convicted murderer that they'd like to extradite, is there any legal basis for a refusal? (Putting aside the political uproar that may ensue.)

[Sean of the Shed]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Hofzinser wrote:

if she's back in america, what's the point? it's not like she's going to be extradited?

Do the US and Italy not have an extradition treaty? And if they do, and if Italy say to the US that they have a convicted murderer that they'd like to extradite, is there any legal basis for a refusal? (Putting aside the political uproar that may ensue.)

Wouldn't the US courts have to decide whether there was a credible case to answer before extraditing her back to Italy?

[ursus arctos]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

What Sean said.

There is an extradition treaty, and while I don't know the details, I would be surprised if there wasn't some kind of review of the foreign judgement built into the process.

[WOM]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Would the US typically review the merits of the case itself, or just whether the accused would have a right to a fair trial and/or whether there might be objectionable punishments involved?

I remember that Canada wouldn't extradite Charles Ng for quite a long time because he faced the death penalty if convicted.

[ursus arctos]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Generally more the latter, at least for a G7 country.

The death penalty is an obstacle to extradition to the US from most civilised countries, with the result often being that the state in question has to agree not to charge the accused with capital murder in order to obtain custody.

[E10 Rifle]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Sollecito has said he'd like to just blend in and disappear into a quiet life without being recognized. Um...yeah...that'll happen.

Well it might. How many people know what Sollecito looks like? How often has his face been plastered over the front of the papers? Is there an OTF thread with his surname in the title?

No, this story's all about 'evil sex witch'/'sweet, fragrant American' Knox. It's not made instantly apparent that anyone else is involved at all.

[WOM]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Apparently you've steered clear of this story.

[E10 Rifle]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Well I have, to an extent. In the list of Great Injustices in the world, it's not in the top 10 really. But I've not seen Sollecito's picture on the front page of a British newspaper at all, I don't think, whereas Knox has featured regularly.

[WOM]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

No, she's certainly been the main attraction. However, I have no trouble recognizing him from pictures, and I know his name. Plus, he's a local boy. I suspect most Italians would recognize him on the street unless he drastically changes his appearance. I don't know how big Bari is, but I suspect anonymity will be a challenge.

[Sean of the Shed]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Yeah, plus all the intimate details or hearsay about her lust-filled sex life. It's all good copy for the British tabloids, but it colours peoples impression of the accused and affects their opinion of the case. It makes me think that freedom of the press should not extend to legal cases, you only have to look at the Bristol murder and the Stockport hospital cases to see where speculation and gossip about the accused can lead. Reporting on court cases should be limited to naming the accused and reporting details of the case, anything more could easily influence a jury members opinion. Any salacious tittle-tattle can be revealed once the case is settled.

[ursus arctos]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Indeed, you can't judge Sollecito from the Anglophone coverage.

His family has been doorstepped for years, and he is very, very widely recognised (which is part of the reason why he keeps changing his hairstyle).

[WOM]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Do you think he'll have an easier go of it than AK or harder, being a local boy and all?

[Etienne]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

Ursus, yes, I think that placeholders are exactly what they were. I'm sure that pieces like this for the Mail Online are assembled rather than written, following a near standard pro-forma that demands "quotes here" and "reactions here" and that they would have been edited in had Knox been found guilty.

[Sam]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

ursus arctos wrote:

The case demonstrates the Italian legal system at its worst, which is seriously awful.

That's actually what I was most interested in about it, and why I'm a little surprised a lot of people who are still living in Britain and the States are saying this is a 'tabloid' story. Apart from the link I posted to the deleted Mail story I've not read any tabloid coverage of it at all, but have been keeping up with it via British news sites and some American sites (Rolling Stone did a good explanation of what the appeal was about and the points of doubt in the case, which was written at the start of the northern summer I think, but which I only read last night).

For what it's worth, since I started this thread, I don't think she did it. Or Sollecito, who I apologise to in his absence for not also naming in the thread title...

[ursus arctos]

Nothing on Amanda Knox?

WOM, I can't judge easier or harder. His life will be very different than it was, and he won't have anything near the income-generating possibilities that Ms. Knox will have. Though a corollary to that is that he will also have a better chance of ultimately reclaiming some kind of private life (under a changed name, I'd think) than she.

Etienne, that's interesting. I would have thought that they would use actual placeholders rather than fabricate text, but I've never worked in an on-line environment. Do you happen to know how long it took them to put up the corrected story? Did that have the same level of detail?

Sam, I think that part of the problem is that the Italian legal system has SO many issues and that this case illustrates SO many of them that it is genuinely difficult to go through them all. And the press (including the "quality" press on both sides of the Atlantic) can't resist focusing on the pretty blond girl.