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    #26
    God this is horrendous. Though it is staggering that some people are using this as an opportunity to double down on this sort of bullshit. Gemma O'Doherty who has been mentioned here a couple of times has completely gone off the fucking deep end talking about false flag operations. If this was 15 years ago she'd probably be sectioned at this point, but we don't do that any more, because we used to do altogether too much of it.

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      #27
      This is impressive

      [URL]https://twitter.com/theprojecttv/status/1106471346303754240?s=21[/URL]

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        #28
        In case others cannot get Nef's link to work

        https://twitter.com/SteveNickSmith/status/1106579773755666433

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          #29
          Originally posted by Bruno View Post
          My point wasn't about the existence or not of a gun lobby in New Zealand, it was that terrorist-style mass shootings are a form of gun violence unlikely to be stopped by tougher gun laws, yet they generate the most calls for gun control (e.g. Parkland or Las Vegas). Reducing the media sensationalism would be a better strategy.
          I'm not sure the first part of this is true. They appear to happen much less frequently in countries where there isn't largely unfettered access to military style weapons.

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            #30
            There also is no compelling reason not to pursue both strategies simultaneously.

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              #31
              Let me clarify - they could in theory be reduced by tougher gun laws but (I assume) never stopped altogether; especially not in the US, short of a comprehensive confiscation/buyback program, which strikes me as a pipe dream. They can happen anywhere, and they're driven by the media attention they get.

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                #32
                Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                There also is no compelling reason not to pursue both strategies simultaneously.
                Certainly not, but more attention needs to be drawn to the one.

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                  #33
                  The problem with the other strategy (tougher gun laws) is that it doesn't seem to be working, hence my suggesting a shift of focus.

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                    #34
                    That's a very US-centric attitude, about the ineffectiveness of gun control campaigns, and about the supposed wide access to battlefield weapons after a successful gun control campaign.

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                      #35
                      I met his wife once. She's equally as impressive

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                        #36
                        Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                        That's a very US-centric attitude, about the ineffectiveness of gun control campaigns, and about the supposed wide access to battlefield weapons after a successful gun control campaign.
                        Yes this. Gun control legislation (even when it's reactive) has been very successful everywhere that it's come in. I would be very surprised if NZ doesn't now enact some real laws

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                          #37
                          Aramoana should have been their Port Arthur. We can only hope that this will be.

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                            #38
                            Exceptionally real Twitter thread on the fear, every day (sorry, I still can't work out links on this board) - https://twitter.com/GoodwinVianna/st...12865408385024

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                              #39
                              That works fine.

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                                #40
                                https://twitter.com/loisbeckett/status/1106592736948305920

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                                  #41
                                  Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                                  That's a very US-centric attitude, about the ineffectiveness of gun control campaigns, and about the supposed wide access to battlefield weapons after a successful gun control campaign.
                                  Yes well gun control campaigns have been unsuccessful in the US. They may even be self-defeating here. I'm not saying NZ shouldn't bother passing any laws.

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                                    #42
                                    That simply isn't true in the bald way you've stated it.

                                    Many gun control campaigns here have failed. None have eliminated mass shootings and it may well be true that it is impossible to eliminate them in the US given the Supreme Court's current interpretation of the Second Amendment as granting individual rights (which virtually no one thought was the case for almost 200 years).

                                    At the same time, some campaigns in some states and municipalities have succeeded and reduced the availability of guns to people intent on mayhem. That has saved lives.

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                                      #43


                                      https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1106615867704598530
                                      Last edited by Nefertiti2; 15-03-2019, 18:15.

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                                        #44
                                        Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                        That simply isn't true in the bald way you've stated it.

                                        Many gun control campaigns here have failed. None have eliminated mass shootings and it may well be true that it is impossible to eliminate them in the US given the Supreme Court's current interpretation of the Second Amendment as granting individual rights (which virtually no one thought was the case for almost 200 years).

                                        At the same time, some campaigns in some states and municipalities have succeeded and reduced the availability of guns to people intent on mayhem. That has saved lives.
                                        I'm determining failure by the fact that mass shootings here are common.

                                        Nef: fuck off.

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                                          #45
                                          That's like saying that aircraft regulation has failed because crashes still happen.

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                                            #46
                                            It really isn't like saying that. Crashes are rare.

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                                              #47
                                              And I'm not arguing against gun legislation!

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                                                #48
                                                .
                                                Last edited by Nefertiti2; 15-03-2019, 18:01.

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                                                  #49
                                                  Thanks. I was actually bringing up an alternative to gun control here, you attention-seeking bully.

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                                                    #50
                                                    And an alternative relevant to the topic at hand, since the Christchurch tragedy was pretty clearly a copycat crime fueled by media attention.

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