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Forget Martyrs, Remember Victims - Bloody Sunday Prosecutions

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    #2
    God reading that is so incredibly similar to reading stuff about the IDF killing Palestinians. The cover ups, the lies, the belief that if the army killed someone that actually proves they were a terrorist. Israel's murder is on a more industrial scale but the basics are all the same.

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      #3
      Agreed. However has Israel an equivalent of Saville's Inquiry Report or Cameron's resulting apology?

      I expect the soldiers referred will be tried. And as El Guapo suggested on a parallel thread, they're unlikely to be convicted. Too long has passed, witnesses died and so on.

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        #4
        Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
        God reading that is so incredibly similar to reading stuff about the IDF killing Palestinians. The cover ups, the lies, the belief that if the army killed someone that actually proves they were a terrorist. Israel's murder is on a more industrial scale but the basics are all the same.
        And both Bloody Sunday and the massacres of Palestinians elicit similar whataboutery from moral cowards.

        "Oh, they're as bad as each other."
        "Look, nobody's condoning what happened but they shouldn't have provoked them."
        "How do you think you'd react in that situation if you had a gun and people were threatening you?!"
        "Why spend so much money on this? Why can't everyone just move on?"
        "Listen, there are two sides to this story..."
        "ALL lives matter!"

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          #5
          Hope you're not including me in that catch-all, Reg. The slogans you list are widely used to refer the NI conflict, and don't necessarily reflect moral cowardice. Just to be clear though, I think trying the soldiers in this case is the right moral and legal decision.

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            #6
            No, I wasn't referring to you DG (or anyone on OTF).

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              #7
              Thanks. I think you should give some names or at least organisations though.

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                #8
                Most tabloid MSM for starters.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
                  Agreed. However has Israel an equivalent of Saville's Inquiry Report or Cameron's resulting apology?
                  Of course not.

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                    #10
                    Soldier F to be prosecuted for two murders and 4 attempted murders. Nobody else to be prosecuted

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                      #11
                      I'm not holding my breath on this one, MOD paying his legal costs.

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                        #12
                        And both Bloody Sunday and the massacres of Palestinians elicit similar whataboutery from moral cowards.
                        Yes, though I think a lot of the centrists who routinely play the "but Hamas " card to justify their indifference to Palestinian suffering would balk at being told they're Bloody Sunday apologists. They may have been discriminated-against bog-trotters in Derry, but at least they were white discriminated-against bog-trotters.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
                          Thanks. I think you should give some names or at least organisations though.
                          If you're looking for a exhaustive list of individuals and organisations with attributable quotes and citations DG, I can't give that to you. All I can say is that I remember the prevailing attitudes of the British establishment and media during the Eighties and Nineties towards Bloody Sunday were very similar to the sentiments I described. Many in, say, Thatcher's and Major's administrations had no interest in bringing the guilty to justice (Bernard Ingham recalled proudly on a recent documentary that "We may not have understood [Irish Republicanism] but they certainly didn't understand us!") and I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine what, say, much of the British midea commentariat would have thought about things like the Bloody Sunday justice campaign.

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                            #14
                            Thing is, the Right are already hopping and raging that there's going to be even one prosecution.

                            Here's Jonny Mercer MP on it: "An abject failure to govern and legislate, on our watch as a Conservative administration. When I speak of a chasm between those who serve and their political masters in this country, I mean this."

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                              Soldier F to be prosecuted for two murders and 4 attempted murders. Nobody else to be prosecuted
                              Sickening.

                              "... because if we gave power to the victims of their crimes, who knows where that will lead?!"

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                                #16
                                https://twitter.com/Mr_Considerate/status/1106153831845511168

                                https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1106159592642355200
                                Last edited by Reginald Christ; 14-03-2019, 11:03.

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Reginald Christ View Post
                                  If you're looking for a exhaustive list of individuals and organisations with attributable quotes and citations DG, I can't give that to you
                                  I didn't ask for or expect that.Rather, anyone post-Saville making those comments specifically about Bloody Sunday. E10 mentions Mercer (ex Army Tory MP).



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                                    #18
                                    Regarding Dawn Foster's tweet, does that mean Soldier F is the only person being prosecuted because he was the only one who consistently lied throughout the inquiry? Immunity seems like a bloody good reason to fess up.

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                                      #19
                                      Mercer is dog whistling.

                                      I genuinely can't believe a bloke who did 3 tours in Afghanistan is comparing British soldiers, killing British civilians, on British streets, with ex-service people sleeping on British streets.

                                      What an idiot.
                                      Last edited by NickSTFU; 14-03-2019, 17:39.

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                                        #20
                                        He certainly sounds a Grade A cockend.

                                        BSun comments are all over social media btw.

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                                          #21
                                          I didn't know what was more shocking, the facts in this article or the identity of the writer and publication :

                                          [URL]https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1106137147998961664?s=21[/URL]



                                          I've clearly been ignorant of Murray's previous writing on the subject which I must remedy.

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                                            #22
                                            Yeah it shocked me he hasn't taken the Brendan O'Neill route either.

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                                              #23
                                              Is the claim in the tweet backed up by anything in the link that I'm missing?

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                                                #24
                                                this piece about Frank Kitson British Army "counter insurgency" specialist in the British colonies of Kenya and Malysia and Northern Ireland and theorist of colonial war who inspired David Petraeus is really worth a read.
                                                Last edited by Nefertiti2; 16-03-2019, 12:31.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Thanks Nef. Good article from Ramsay

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