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  • Duncan Gardner
    replied
    Thanks for that Nef

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  • ad hoc
    replied
    Thanks Nef, that;s an excellent essay. I can't help but see it is utopian, and I have no idea how it is meant to come about, but it's about the best and most clearly outlined positive future I have seen for years and years.

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    Whether you support Israel, or you oppose it can I ask you to read this piece by Peter Beinart

    I

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    G-D bless Gideon Levy

    https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1279377833912131584?s=20

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    https://twitter.com/ben_reiff/status/1197267683873562626?s=21

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  • Posty Webber
    replied
    It does seem that way.

    If only we could say the same for Western Boomer and GenX jews.

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    Missed that. Sorry.
    Still Israel has definitely moved to the centre since 2016, hasn’t it?

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  • Posty Webber
    replied
    Hang on - article from 2016. Still...

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  • Posty Webber
    replied
    Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
    Israeli General in antisemitism shock

    https://twitter.com/FreeBesieged/status/1278077577534545921?s=20

    Good thing he's not a member of the Labour Party
    That’s awesome - glad people are speaking against the tide.

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    Israeli General in antisemitism shock

    https://twitter.com/FreeBesieged/status/1278077577534545921?s=20

    Good thing he's not a member of the Labour Party

    Leave a comment:


  • Duncan Gardner
    replied
    Nice nostalgia thread for me at least, thanks all

    Here's the attack on the Brit Consulate in February 1969 (Dad's office, we live next door)

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  • ad hoc
    replied
    I like Jerusalem. But I've only ever stayed in East Jerusalem which has a very activist but cultural air. The kind of place where you can find yourself in a bar at 2am listening to some amazing oud musicians. It really is the cultural and vibrant heart of Palestine far more than Ramallah is.

    And the old city is tense but amazing. Though far too many tooled up soldiers.

    I never went to Tel Aviv. It felt kind of disloyal. The only Israeli cities (other than Jerusalem) I spent time in were Afula (because it was the closest to where I lived) and Nazareth, which feels more like a Palestinian city anyway.

    Ground zero of everything is Hebron. The settlers live right in the middle of the city and their presence fucks everything. The most in your face depressing awful place in the world

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  • Posty Webber
    replied
    Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
    Thanks sfd and Posty. I have very mixed feelings about Israel, i have a lot of family there, and Tel Aviv is a lovely city i think- i love the buzz around Jaffa/Haifa and the energy- I also really like the Bauhaus villas.

    Jerusalem is heavier in all sorts of ways.

    I'd love to return and visit the Occupied Territories. All th time I had was taken up with visiting relatives. I think a lot more Jews feel like the person you met on the plane than you would know from reading the newspapers.

    Yep, Haifa is really interesting as a blue collar port and does have a unique energy that I enjoyed.

    I couldn’t agree more on Jerusalem - that joint wigged me out proper. I lost the plot there during a football tournament I was participating in, and tried to fight the coach and team manager (from my own team). One of the lowest moments of my life, and I (in-part) put it down to being based in a city that felt to me to like an aloof outpost for the planet. People talk about living, breathing cities; well this one felt like it was holding its breath. An over-hyped, sandstone labyrinth with overpriced tat and a pointless sense of importance at its centre.

    Being in that city for the few weeks leading up to the tournament messed me up. It’s cool-looking I suppose, but with ultra-orthodox weirdos milling around, soldiers and security checks, overpriced artefacts, and of course the spectre of East Jerusalem it left me cold.

    I packed my bags, jumped in a taxi and headed for Tel-Aviv with debauchery in-mind, and had a blast.

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    https://twitter.com/simonerzim/status/1278025723295477762?s=21

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    In the meantime

    this thread from one of the many Jewish activist groups in the US, U.K. and Israel

    https://twitter.com/simonerzim/status/1278025719579369480?s=21

    Leave a comment:


  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    Thanks sfd and Posty. I have very mixed feelings about Israel, i have a lot of family there, and Tel Aviv is a lovely city i think- i love the buzz around Jaffa/Haifa and the energy- I also really like the Bauhaus villas.

    Jerusalem is heavier in all sorts of ways.

    I'd love to return and visit the Occupied Territories. All th time I had was taken up with visiting relatives. I think a lot more Jews feel like the person you met on the plane than you would know from reading the newspapers.

    Leave a comment:


  • ad hoc
    replied
    What would be left of the West Bank would be a moth-eaten Bantustan, which would be the end, not the beginning, of a genuine Palestinian state. This would be a modern form of apartheid, a political anomaly in the 21st century.
    From the UN's high commission of human rights.

    https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/...26004&LangID=E

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  • super furry dice
    replied
    Posty Webber agree, an aboslute highlight in all of my travels. I was visiting as part of doing the UEFA 55, that is visit all 55 UEFA countrie and watch footie in all of them, Israel was the 55th, just before covid so i was lucky in timing, but i have to revisit San Marino and Kazakhstan as though I've been to grounds in those 2, i've never seen gaimes in either (I have watched footie in the other 53).

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  • Posty Webber
    replied
    super furry dice thanks for sharing your post. Your experience above is very similar to my own.

    Hanging about Tel Aviv-Yafo was a real highlight for me travel-wise, with Jews and Arabs living together, gay/straight and all. I felt a sense of contentment being there (might have been the 6 vodkas).

    May I ask, why were you visiting IL?

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  • super furry dice
    replied
    Some great posts Nefertiti2 and I hope you don't mind me sharing some observations from my first (only?) visit to Israel in earlier this year. I visted Be'er Sheva, Bethlehem, Jaffa, Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and aborted an attempt to visit Al-Ram.

    I loved Jaffa, it felt utopian to be honest. Sat outside a wonderful bar watching burqa and beachwear wearers and gay and straight couples wonder around freely with no hassles or tensions, and to hear the Muslim call of prayer from a mosque within a stones throw of a synagogue... It wasn't what I expected, it was so at ease. Jersualem and Bethelehem less so. I entered and left Bethlehem from the Jerusalem side via Checkpoint 300. I wanted to 'experience' what the Palestinians go through, I didn't fancy the idea of doing it in a nice and sanitised guided tour and I'm glad I did it the way I did.

    In truth I found the process of leaving the Bethlehem side humiliating. It wasn't just a security process. There were four holding pens, one old lady got trapped in a turnstile when they decieded to stop people progressing from one pen to the next, and the whole process took around 30minutes. I did it around midday on the weekend so it was pretty quiet and I can't even contemplate how bad it would be in commutting hours. The wall is awful as well. Its only when you're in close to it you see how horrible it is for those who live close to it, and I was surpised how many did. Bethlehem was nice; Jerusalem was what i'd expected, lots of energy and tbh, the diffference between west and east wasn't enormous though as you go out into the respective sides suburbs, its noticable how much more affluent west Jerusalem appears to be.

    Neither Tel Aviv nor particlarly Be'er Sheva - oh the architecture :-) - were as cosmopolitan but the people were really nice, really good hosts and at the Hapoel Tel Aviv game that I went to, I mingled with some of the friendliest home fans i've met anywhere (and I'vd done the UEFA 55). There was pride with them and though we didn't talk politics much, they were keen to point out the clubs history and the arab connections and support, and the tweets you've shared of joint demonstrations don't surprise me, I really sensed a significant part of the population in Tel Aviv (as with Jaffa) were opposed to the type of nationalism the Israeli government adopts.

    But Al-Ram.. well I'll never know what it was like. I had planned on watching a Palestinian league game, got a bus out of east Jerusalem to Al-Ram but the ground was just inside another checkpoiint. I spoke to the guards about where the exit point was from the Al-Ram side and in the conversation concluded that due to the location of the exit point and the closure time of teh gate, i'd at best see 10minutes of football. The Israeli guard I spoke to was really nice and truly petritifed over the danger I might put myself (and him) in if I had gone in. He was close to half my age and tbh, that plus the little bit of football i could see, killed my plan. I climbed up a hill to get some pics of the floodlights and the stadium roof but that was as close as I got.

    I think i'd have been safe at the game tbh, but I think it was right to sack it and if I go back, I would stay on the Palesitinian side so i can watch a game without fear of being locked in to a place I wasn't staying in.

    I'd like to go back. I left with a better understanding of the politics of the place and I honestly felt at Hapoel, that their fans were pleased people like me had visited so they could show that not all Israelis agree with their government nor by extension, the support, tactile or otherwise, many governments are giving its disgraceful annexisation.

    And last comment, on the flight over I was set next to a Labour voting Jew who was going home to visit family. She liked Corbyn. Lots. Very much in the camp that the painting of him as anti-semitic was an abuse and in itself a form of anti-semitism by devaluing what the term really means.

    Sorry for the long post but we entered lockdown not long after i got home and i've not really had chance to talk about my experience with many!!
    Last edited by super furry dice; 29-06-2020, 20:55.

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    https://twitter.com/Ha_Matar/status/1277492722249732097?s=20

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    https://twitter.com/MairavZ/status/1276549865955188736?s=20

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  • ursus arctos
    replied
    https://twitter.com/truahrabbis/status/1276513383056125952

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    https://twitter.com/4noura/status/1275488161712558084?s=20

    https://twitter.com/4noura/status/1275491811193171968?s=20

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  • Nefertiti2
    replied
    Thread

    https://twitter.com/DanielSeidemann/status/1275237650774056960?s=20

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