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  • Nocturnal Submission
    replied
    Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
    So, DNA testing has thrown up another issue for the family, though this time it's my wife's rather than mine.

    My son, the family's primary source of contact in such matters, was e-mailed a few weeks ago by a chap who was trying to identify his biological father. He'd been adopted as a baby and, although he'd tracked down his biological mother via his birth certificate, had been unable to establish contact with her and thus find out who his dad was. However, DNA testing has established an almost certain link with one of my wife's maternal uncles. The prime candidate was J1 who had lived in the same house as the chap's mum, but as he and his wife has been unable to have children there was a chance that he was infertile. J2 lived in the same area and may have met the woman through his brother. The other much less likely possibilities, B & W, were living in the Irish Republic at the time but could have had a brief relationship with the woman whilst visiting their brother. Anyway, it was one of them!

    With J1 now dead and (apparently) childless there's no way of proving his paternity but J2 is still alive and has two children, so tested DNA from any of those three could prove a link. How keen any of them would be to take a test is, of course, the big question, and one to which the assumed answer is not bloody very.

    So, despite wanting to help, there's not a lot we can do. J2's daughter is a good sort, apparently, and there's a possibility that someone could chance their arm and ask her to provide a DNA sample for testing, but it would be a big risk in terms of how she'd react. She could also independently decide to be DNA tested, of course, which would be handy. There's also another family member on the genealogy website, one of my wife's cousins I think, who will almost certainly have seen the suggested link and is perhaps mulling over the situation too.

    As I think we've discussed, though, this sort of thing is going to become more and more common, as DNA testing for genealogy purposes starts to throw up an increasing number of previously unknown and potentially extremely awkward family links.

    In the unlikely event that anyone on OTF is interested, there have been some developments.

    My son has kept in contact with the chap in question, R, and my wife has gradually become more involved in the story. She presented her mum with the facts and, after seeing a photo of R, said that he was the image of prime suspect J1. R, sent photos in return, said he felt nothing when he saw the photo of J2. My wife spoke to him a few days ago and the call went very well, with lots of family information and aspects of life and upbringing being swapped.

    Things have moved on apace in the last couple of days though. The information has begun to disseminate amongst my wife's cousins and has reached J2's daughter. She seems excited by the news but we're not really sure if she's grasped the possible ramifications!
    Last edited by Nocturnal Submission; 18-04-2020, 21:32.

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  • Nocturnal Submission
    replied
    The family archivist (my son) has just given me another interesting snippet of information about the antecedents of my maternal grandfather, mentioned in the opening post on this thread. Apparently his was a family with a strong Royal Navy tradition, or at least it was until granddad deserted! Anyway, amongst others, his grandfather, my great-great-grandfather, won a number of medals, including one at the Bombardment of Algiers (1816) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombar...Algiers_(1816)) which was partly motivated by a desire to end the slave trade of Europeans in North Africa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade).

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  • Nocturnal Submission
    replied
    My son has just informed me that I'm related to Alyshia Powell (nee Miller), wife of the Jamaican sprinter Asafa Powell:


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  • Nocturnal Submission
    replied
    Originally posted by NHH View Post
    On the DNA stuff - I've got the same issue as the chap you mention who contacted your son. I did an Ancestry DNA test which revealed I was 99% Irish, centred around Ballina in Co Mayo but it didn't flag anyone other than 3rd or 4th cousins. Is the chap concerned doing something differently?

    No, I don't think so. I've only glanced occasionally at the screen when my son has showed me the fruits on his research, but I think that on some area of your account you can see a list of suggested links and what relationship is indicated. I presume that the guy in question is seeing the four brothers as likely paternal links via my son's DNA test results and confirmed familial relationship.

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  • NHH
    replied
    A friend of a friend had a similar experience - they plugged their DNA in and it identified a small cluster in a town they hitherto had no connections, and identified various cousins. he contacted one of the people and there was no obvious family link. They talked about jobs they had held, and it transpired that the FOAF's great-granddad had worked as a porter in a hospital at which the other person's great grandmother had been a nurse. No-one had any knowledge this had happened and both probably went to their graves thinking they'd managed to avoid the secret ever getting out.

    On the DNA stuff - I've got the same issue as the chap you mention who contacted your son. I did an Ancestry DNA test which revealed I was 99% Irish, centred around Ballina in Co Mayo but it didn't flag anyone other than 3rd or 4th cousins. Is the chap concerned doing something differently?

    ×



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  • Nocturnal Submission
    replied
    So, DNA testing has thrown up another issue for the family, though this time it's my wife's rather than mine.

    My son, the family's primary source of contact in such matters, was e-mailed a few weeks ago by a chap who was trying to identify his biological father. He'd been adopted as a baby and, although he'd tracked down his biological mother via his birth certificate, had been unable to establish contact with her and to try to find out who his dad was. However, DNA testing has established an almost certain link with one of my wife's maternal uncles. The prime candidate was J1 who had lived in the same house as the chap's mum, but as he and his wife has been unable to have children there was a chance that he was infertile. J2 lived in the same area and may have met the woman through his brother. The other much less likely possibilities, B & W, were living in the Irish Republic at the time but may have had a brief relationship with the woman whilst visiting their brother. Anyway, it was one of them!

    With J1 now dead and (apparently) childless there's no way of proving his paternity but J2 is still alive and has two children, so tested DNA from any of those three could prove a link. How keen any of them would be to take a test is, of course, the big question, and one to which the assumed answer is not bloody very.

    So, despite wanting to help, there's not a lot we can do. J2's daughter is a good sort, apparently, and there's a possibility that someone could chance their arm and ask her to provide a DNA sample for testing, but it would be a big risk in terms of how she'd react. She could also independently decide to be DNA tested, of course, which would be handy. There's also another family member on the genealogy website, one of my wife's cousins I think, who will almost certainly have seen the suggested link and is perhaps mulling over the situation too.

    As I think we've discussed, though, this sort of thing is going to become more and more common, as DNA testing for genealogy purposes starts to throw up an increasing number of previously unknown and potentially extremely awkward family links.
    Last edited by Nocturnal Submission; 05-03-2020, 14:15.

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  • Moonlight shadow
    replied
    We are going to end up being related FF, my mum and one branch of her family were from an area in Italy just south of St-Moritz in the Grisons canton, that was indeed under control from that canton until the 16th century...

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  • Femme Folle
    replied
    Moonlight shadow 23andMe keep refining their results, so now my ancestry composition includes this detail that wasn't there before:


    #2 isn't new to me, however, because in researching actual people ancestors, I know that some of them were from Bern. I like that they've clarified the "French & German" to show that I'm not actually French or German.

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  • Benjm
    replied
    Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
    The family took the news of granddad's secret well, apart from the eldest of his grandchildren, who of course had a longer memory of him. She's rather appalled by it all. Oh well.
    My mate's dad got quite into genealogy. Having exhausted their antecedents of interest he took a look at my friend's partner's family tree. He's not the most diplomatic of people and the consensus seems to be that when he discovered that one of her mum's aunts was actually her older sister he might have been a bit more tactful about breaking the news, which she had been entirely unaware of up to that point.

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  • Nocturnal Submission
    replied
    Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
    Have we done genealogy on OTF? Can't recall it but there's probably something deep in the archives.

    I first got involved about 30 years ago, when the main source of information was the dusty tomes in the public records office. My paternal grandfather's background (Plymouth) was fairly well-known but my sister and I managed to take our antecedents back a few generations. My paternal grandmother was a bit more difficult but we managed to find out where she was born (Canning Town), which my dad didn't know, and I even visited the road and took some photos for him. So that was nice. My maternal grandmother was, we thought, fairly securely located (NE Wales) but she actually proved to be much harder to place than we thought. She's still a bit of a work in progress. But the biggest mystery was my maternal grandfather. Rocking up in NE Wales he'd said he was from the Oxford area but little more was known about him than that.

    My sister has been on his case for years now and had constructed quite a convincing back story but advances in DNA testing and its cost has proved to be a game-changer. My teenage son has been building family trees for years now and by accessing and analysing the DNA results that are appearing on the genealogy websites he has, to a high level of certainty, cracked it.

    It transpires that my grandfather had taken a new name and kept quite about his background to cover the fact that he (drumroll) had deserted from the Royal Navy (gasp!).

    I find this all quite fascinating but I suppose that some family members might be a bit disappointed in him. All of his children, including my mum, have passed away but he still has a living daughter-in-law and about half a dozen grandchildren, one of whom has the wrong surname! Conversations to be had.

    Has anyone else got any genealogy-related tales to tell or family mysteries to be delved into?

    Another update.

    The family took the news of granddad's secret well, apart from the eldest of his grandchildren, who of course had a longer memory of him. She's rather appalled by it all. Oh well.

    Anyway, another one of my cousins decided to do some more digging and discovered the old rascal, on top of changing his name and deserting from the RN, was also married, so you can add bigamy to his charge sheet.

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  • Sits
    replied
    Hmmm, the jury's out. Anyway in hindsight, writing about my family tree methodology is dull by even my standards. So here's a bygone family story instead.

    The forebears of my dad's paternal grandma, in rural Oxfordshire:

    William & Ann: poor Ann gave birth to thirteen children between 1783 and 1802, of whom three died in infancy. Most of the births are marked "Pauper".

    Their grandson Thomas married Hannah and they had a mere five children from 1830 to 1840. But considering he spent the last twenty years of his life (1859-79) in Littlemore Pauper Lunatic Asylum, having also served three months in jail for larceny in 1839, that was fairly good going. Apologies to readers of Mundane II for the duplication.

    It's fair to say I'm not from aristocratic stock.

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  • The Awesome Berbaslug!!!
    replied
    You can tell how good an idea that is, by how obvious it seems in hindsight.

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  • Sits
    replied
    I embarked upon my Mark 2 family tree yesterday (a hand drawn one, not on Ancestry; Ancestry is invaluable for searching but I want to have a "proper" one too and eventually aim to print all the sources for the individuals too). In an attempt to reduce the limitations of the perpendicular I've introduced diagonals. So each of my four grandparents has their own tree sprouting from the centre at 90 degrees to the next.

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  • Nocturnal Submission
    replied
    Originally posted by jdsx View Post

    I don't think my grandfather was important enough to warrant such attention. Most likely they were worried about what 'Jacko' might do.... the next photo is a bit more 'composed':
    (it's the pith helmet that makes it so...colonial, though....)


    I was going to say that he looks as though he's riding Jacko like a bike, and indeed have done so, but then became aware how that remark may be misinterpreted by dirty minds, like mine.

    The Boxer Rebellion broke out a few weeks after the photographs were taken. Given the demeanours of the locals, possibly because of them!
    Last edited by Nocturnal Submission; 13-03-2019, 23:42.

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  • The Awesome Berbaslug!!!
    replied
    I love the woman with the mandolin. It has a proper italian roundback. They must all have been fucking dying of the heat. Hainan is only 19 degrees north of the equator.

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  • jdsx
    replied
    Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
    There is no part of that photo that isn't colonial though. Even down to the SOAS copyright in the bottom corner.
    Indeed.

    This is perhaps my favourite photo though.... my grandfather (2nd from left) gets his name written on because the previous photo features almost the same group with all their names listed... The caption is; "Tea at Schomberg's, Hoihow, Hainan, 18 August, 1898"

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  • The Awesome Berbaslug!!!
    replied
    There is no part of that photo that isn't colonial though. Even down to the SOAS copyright in the bottom corner.

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  • jdsx
    replied
    Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

    Hahahah, that's one of the most colonial pictures I have ever seen.
    Everyone in that picture is looking at your grandfather with murderous eyes, even the white dude sitting next to him.
    I don't think my grandfather was important enough to warrant such attention. Most likely they were worried about what 'Jacko' might do.... the next photo is a bit more 'composed':
    (it's the pith helmet that makes it so...colonial, though....)

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  • Tactical Genius
    replied
    Originally posted by jdsx View Post
    Found a couple of photos of my grandfather while searching online yesterday. Here he is sitting front right, with the monkey, (called 'Jacko'...). Taken in Hoihow (Hainan), in September 1898.
    Unfortunately, the list of 'people' on the back reads "Boy, boy, coolie, cook, RFCH [the initials of the man whose collection the photo is in], EHDSX [my grandfather] and Jacko"

    Hahahah, that's one of the most colonial pictures I have ever seen.
    Everyone in that picture is looking at your grandfather with murderous eyes, even the white dude sitting next to him.

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  • jdsx
    replied
    Not that I know of, although I think my dad owned a large (framed?) photo of his dad which also featured Jacko....so maybe he was a family 'pet'...! My grandfather died when my dad was only four, and he didn't get on with his mum, so not a lot of family history has come down to me!

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  • Femme Folle
    replied
    Very cool photo, jdsx. I'm fascinated by Jacko. Was he your grandfather's?

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  • jdsx
    replied
    Found a couple of photos of my grandfather while searching online yesterday. Here he is sitting front right, with the monkey, (called 'Jacko'...). Taken in Hoihow (Hainan), in September 1898.
    Unfortunately, the list of 'people' on the back reads "Boy, boy, coolie, cook, RFCH [the initials of the man whose collection the photo is in], EHDSX [my grandfather] and Jacko"


    Leave a comment:


  • Femme Folle
    replied
    I finally found my Scottish ancestor. My grandmother had always claimed to have some Scottish heritage, but I hadn't found it until today. I found him on a searchable site of birth, marriage and death records, but I have more research to do on his parents. He is only shared with two other users' family trees on ancestry .com and they both claim that he was born when his mother was 8 years old. I feel strongly that they have the wrong person.

    ETA: They were likely Ulster-Scots, but possibly not. The timing and place of my John Logan's birth doesn't fit. This needs more research.
    Last edited by Femme Folle; 11-03-2019, 04:11.

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  • Furtho
    replied
    Originally posted by SouthdownRebel View Post

    A disturbing new euphemism.
    Very good.

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  • Nocturnal Submission
    replied
    Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
    Have we done genealogy on OTF? Can't recall it but there's probably something deep in the archives.

    I first got involved about 30 years ago, when the main source of information was the dusty tomes in the public records office. My paternal grandfather's background (Plymouth) was fairly well-known but my sister and I managed to take our antecedents back a few generations. My paternal grandmother was a bit more difficult but we managed to find out where she was born (Canning Town), which my dad didn't know, and I even visited the road and took some photos for him. So that was nice. My maternal grandmother was, we thought, fairly securely located (NE Wales) but she actually proved to be much harder to place than we thought. She's still a bit of a work in progress. But the biggest mystery was my maternal grandfather. Rocking up in NE Wales he'd said he was from the Oxford area but little more was known about him than that.

    My sister has been on his case for years now and had constructed quite a convincing back story but advances in DNA testing and it's cost has proved to be a game-changer. My teenage son has been building family trees for years now and by accessing and analysing the DNA results that are appearing on the genealogy websites he has, to a high level of certainty, cracked it.

    It transpires that my grandfather had taken a new name and kept quite about his background to cover the fact that he (drumroll) had deserted from the Royal Navy (gasp!).

    I find this all quite fascinating but I suppose that some family members might be a bit disappointed in him. All of his children, including my mum, have passed away but he still has a living daughter-in-law and about half a dozen grandchildren, one of whom has the wrong surname! Conversations to be had.

    Has anyone else got any genealogy-related tales to tell or family mysteries to be delved into?
    Quick update. After some initial scepticism, mainly borne of frustration that she wasn't the one to solve the mystery, I suspect, my sister has embraced our grandfather's real identity to such an extent that she's in regular contact with one of our newly-discovered second cousins and planning to meet up with her and presumably some of her family later in the year. She was also quick to tell as many of our known family members as she could, so the aforementioned daughter-in-law, her son and his son are now aware that their surname should be Chapman rather than Ellis!

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