Someone Has To Do It: US Elections 2020

[ursus arctos]

Clinton Derangement Syndrome works both ways

[ad hoc]

Why do normally sane women (and some men) become so furious about Sanders?

Because Sanders is the reason Hillary lost. I have no idea how that works but that's the reason

[Flynnie]

Mediocre white women see themselves in Hillary. There’s also a hell of a lot of people out there who built an identity for themselves as the coolest, most progressive person and when confronted by actual social democracy, let their bourgeois, reactionary freak flag fly. I suspect this explains a lot of people old enough to remember the Cold War - so not me - who got brainwashed into seeing socialism as the bogeyman. Also people who love the left, but they don’t really want a tax hike. Directors of marketing are people too!

But I don’t know how the hell you lose to Donald Trump running an arrogant, self-satisfied campaign and become a hero amongst some for it.

[Flynnie]

By the way, are we entirely sure she isn’t running again?

[San Bernardhinault]

I don't think Bernie's the right candidate, particularly not this time around. But I don't understand the anger about him running. It is weird.

[Tactical Genius]

I don't think Bernie's the right candidate, particularly not this time around. But I don't understand the anger about him running. It is weird.

The anger is that the Democrats don't have anyone credible to run against him in the primaries. All the other candidates are self destructing and we haven't even got to the debates.

[Flynnie]

Sanders is also talking about a building a movement of basically tens of millions of people. I suppose you could say they all do this, but there are a lot of we’s in his messaging. I think his message is don’t just put your faith in me (since I’m old, among other things) but rebuild the Democratic Party to achieve the things you want it to achieve, like Medicare for All. That’s the kind of thing that (rightly) scares the shit out of party elites.

[anton pulisov]

Mediocre white women see themselves in Hillary. There’s also a hell of a lot of people out there who built an identity for themselves as the coolest, most progressive person and when confronted by actual social democracy, let their bourgeois, reactionary freak flag fly. I suspect this explains a lot of people old enough to remember the Cold War - so not me - who got brainwashed into seeing socialism as the bogeyman. Also people who love the left, but they don’t really want a tax hike. Directors of marketing are people too!

Yes, I see this a lot with scientists working at government research centres and universities in the US. Their pre-tax salaries are at least twice as high as their European counterparts, and they also pay lower tax rates, so their take home pay can be nearly three times as much. They live in five bedroom houses and drive SUVs three miles to work. Where they lecture on climate change. And it's a complete joke, their labs are really poorly equipped in many cases. But the labs all have fancy names named after some highly paid guru, e.g. "The Johnson Lab". But these labs seem to exist on paper and in website only, I've never actually seen an actual laboratory. The labs in Europe are much better equipped. Probably because we spend less money on obscene salaries and more on the actual equipment and experiments.

So, yeah, when push comes to shove, are they really gonna give up their obscene salaries?

[anton pulisov]

Sanders is also talking about a building a movement of basically tens of millions of people. I suppose you could say they all do this, but there are a lot of we’s in his messaging. I think his message is don’t just put your faith in me (since I’m old, among other things) but rebuild the Democratic Party to achieve the things you want it to achieve, like Medicare for All. That’s the kind of thing that (rightly) scares the shit out of party elites.

Yes. 45% of the electorate don't vote. If he gets 10% of them to show up to the polls, then he wins in a landslide. He said today , "we have a corrupt political system." That's probably what a lot of the 45% think as well.

[Gerontophile]

He has to run as a Democrat to win.

[Incandenza]

okay....?

[Femme Folle]

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but trump will win reelection in 2020. We have done nothing to prevent Russian hacking--trump's government won't even acknowledge that it happened (for obvious reasons). So I'm not getting my hopes up. Maybe I will be proven wrong, and I will be very happy to admit that I was wrong.

And fucking Bernie Sanders. He's not going to win the nomination (again) and his Bernie Bros will sit out the election or vote for trump (again). Bernie isn't the real problem, his fanboyz are.

[Amor de Cosmos]

The anger is that the Democrats don't have anyone credible to run against him in the primaries. All the other candidates are self destructing and we haven't even got to the debates.

Wasn't that why people were angry about Hillary last time?

[ursus arctos]

I'm beginning to understand why we didn't have a thread . . .

[WOM]

All the other candidates are self destructing and we haven't even got to the debates.

Curious as to how all the other candidates are 'self-destructing'.

[San Bernardhinault]

I'm not sure they're all self-destructing. (Although some actually have self-destructed, like Tulsi Gabbard). It's just that some people find flaws in each of them.

As I do in Bernie. (By the way, FF has a point - I've deleted my comments in this post a handful of times because I know that any criticism of Bernie - even on these pages - can lead to getting shouted down).

Anyway, I really don't think Bernie's a good candidate, even if he'd make a decent president.

Last time out almost all his success was in caucus states - which automatically whittles down the participants in the election to the most engaged. These aren't the people that the Democrats need to win.

And there's polling from last time out that Bernie performed far worse with black primary voters than even "Superpredator" Hillary did, which does not suggest that he was a particularly compelling draw last time around. As Ursus says, being unable to appeal to that constituency is a pretty clear way of losing a general election.

And after our current possibly senile president, I don't think the American public would be particularly excited by the idea of a 76 year old - no matter how lucid he seems.

The evidence suggests that he's really a pretty poor electoral draw. And there's no evidence at all that he'd bring in the extra 10% of non-voters that Anton talks about.

[Cal Alamein]

Bernie isn't the real problem, his fanboyz are.

Sorry FF, but that's a bit of a generalization. I supported Bernie in 2016 because of his policies, but in the end did not hesitate to vote for HRC. I know many many others who did the same thing and know of no one who boycotted the election or threw their vote to Trump. Obviously some of his fanboyz are narrow-minded dickheads, but I have to believe the vast majority of his supporters are good people.

Hoping a younger true progressive materializes in the next year. Warren will be 71, Bernie will be 79 in 2020.

This boring refrain will get old, but Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania... and maybe a couple others???

[anton pulisov]

Well, 10% of the the 45% who don't vote, so 4.5% uptick in turnout.

The highest turnout in recent decades was 2008, where Obama was fairly Bernieesque in terms of campaign rhetoric. He ran as anti Iraq war Democratic outsider who wanted to take on Wall Street.

Democrats saying that running Bernie is like 2016 all over again are forgetting that he is the candidate most similar in message to Senator Obama. It would be helpful if Democrats looked to their biggest victory since FDR (2008) and indeed FDR himself, rather than trying to put a bandaid on Clintonism, which only ever succeeded when Ross Perot split the vote.

[anton pulisov]

Has Tulsi Gabbard self-destructed? I haven't been following that at all. Her way of talking would put you to sleep though.

[ursus arctos]

No one has self-destructed (except Ojeda, who withdrew).

It is much too early for that. We are stuck with these people for at least the next six months. What would end their candidacies before then would be a lack of funds, not self-destructive gaffes.

[San Bernardhinault]

Apparently she announced way before any of her team were ready, they've had complete chaos and her campaign manager and main consulting firm rapidly left her team. As far as I know, she left for Hawaii and has said almost nothing since her initial announcement.

[ursus arctos]

She's been defending Wikileaks and saying that Assad is not an enemy of the US; she's also introduced a bill that would prevent the US from withdrawing from the INF treaty.

She will continue to get coverage because she provides "good copy".

We are just a few days less than a year away from the New Hampshire Primary. People need to pace themselves.

[Gerontophile]

The people you are referring to, being 'us'.

[Femme Folle]

Tulsi Gabbard is even less of a Democrat than Bernie is.

[Gerontophile]

I liked the gay mayor guy. But he has less chance than Gerald Ford.