Is it possible for any elected Democrat to criticize AIPAC without Pelosi and Schumer forcing them to retract? What form of words would they accept as not antisemitic?
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https://twitter.com/CoreyRobin/status/1095051623859011584
To say that groups funded to lobby on Israel do exactly that is dismissed as "antisemitic" as is saying that the state of Israel (like every other nation) intervenes officially and unofficially to get its message across- even though there is ample evidence that they do just that.
Nothing makes me more angry than the strategic weaponisation of "antisemitism"- by which I mean not the physically attacks on Jews, discrimination against Jews, prejudice against Jews, asides about Jews or threats to Jewish existence which I'd guess every person of Jewish heritage has experienced, but the nigh-on impossible negotiation of criticising a powerful and wealthy lobby without mentioning its power or its wealth or using any image, rhetorical flourish or comparison which can be constructed as offensive - whilst at the same time the state of Israel and its allies in the US and UK are quite happy to find common cause and make alliances with actual antisemites from Steve Bannon or Viktor Orban, to Marine Le Pen Tommy Robinson or the "Alternative für Deutschland."Last edited by Nefertiti2; 12-02-2019, 06:11.Comment
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wypN0PChAtg&t=230sOriginally posted by anton pulisov View Post
AOC. Listen to what she says and see if you can spot the offensive bit.
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Her comments in Full...
"I'm latina (with accent).
And Latino Americans have a really interesting identity. because as especially for me as a Puerto Rican woman. my identity is as a descendant of many different identities. I am the descendant of African slaves. I am the descendant of indigenous peoples, I am the descendant of Spanish Colonisers, I am the descendant of all sorts of folks.
That doesn't mean i'm black (note facial expression), that doesn't mean i'm, you know native.
But it does mean I can use that as....(then she catches herself and tries to roll back) I can tell the story of my ancestors. That doesn't mean i'm THAT (note facial expression)."
So, she identifies as Spanish yet is trying to talk for black people, After the J-lo Grammys debacle, Michelle Rodriguez Liam Neeson comments yet more Latino insults.
The only thing worse than a White Supremacist is a White Supremacist wannabee as they go the extra mile to prove themselves.
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When she says it doesn't mean she's black, I think she's trying to assure black people that she's not claiming their identity, i.e. pulling an Elizabeth Warren.
But yeah, some serious rambling going on there. I was hoping she'd try to keep away from the identity politics. edit: Maybe she has consultants whispering in her ears now?Last edited by anton pulisov; 12-02-2019, 12:43.Comment
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whoa, hold on here. There's a bit missing there, she's not talking in the abstract, she's talking about Elizabeth warren, who was claiming membership of a native american tribe on the basis of one ancestor, She's saying that having an ancestor from a particular group doesn't allow you to claim full membership of that group but allows you to support that group and be an ally. In the way that having many black ancestors, or native american ancestors, or spanish ancestors Doesn't allows AOC to claim that she is black, or native american or Spanish. She gets to call herself a Puerto Rican which is a combination of all of these things, which allows her to identify to a degree with all of these groups, but not claim to be any one of them in particular. She's effectively trying to explain to the the huge numbers of white americans that have a family tree made up of a variety of northern european white protestants, that the one non-wasp ancestor in your background doesn't entitle you to a face tattoo, but should encourage you to try and support that community, and then stretch that attitude towards other groups because it's a complicated world out there.Comment
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The ironic thing is that so much of the criticism of Omar saying "it's about the Benjamins" was saying that she was making the claim that a secret group of rich Jews try to control politicians. By making any sort of criticism of AIPAC beyond the pale, these people are trying to make sure that AIPAC remains in the shadows and can't be discussed, in effect trying to make them a secret group.Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View PostComment
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Yeah, I don't see anything wrong or offensive with what AOC said. The "I can use that to tell the story" bit makes me roll my eyes a little, but--and very few politicians do this--she's pointing out that many Latinxs are the product of a lot of racial, national, and class mixing, not all of it a simple feel-good story. That there isn't one Cuban, or Puerto Rican, or Mexican identity, especially among people in the USA.Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View PostComment
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"But it does mean I can use that as....(then she catches herself and tries to roll back) I can tell the story of my ancestors."Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
Now, we can only speculate what she was going to say before she attempted to correct herself mid-sentence but she was clearly trying to claim some kind of advocacy on behalf of Black people and indigenous people of the Americas.
I have no problem with who or what she identifies as, despite the look of disgust on her face when clarifying she wasn't black. The same face you would pull when explaining to someone that despite having itchy balls, you don't have AIDS.
I object to people who try and claim advocacy or to speak for/on behalf of a group she made plain she isn't a part of. That however does not stop her having an opinion like anyone else.
That's like me saying I can tell the story of Irish people because my old man liked a pint of Guinness almost as much as Berbaslug. All this cultural appropriation nonsense has just got out of hand. Plus what's it got to do with her what Elizabeth Warren identifies as?
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That's what she ended up saying, Lord knows what she was going to say before she engaged her brain, I really fear for your eyes had you heard it.Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
I am well aware of some of the issues in Latin America (and the Carribbean) and their black population which is almost invisible until bodies are needed for the national football team.
It goes back the the Reconquista, the Spanish inquision and stuff like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limpieza_de_sangre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta
This is why many Latinos are excellent at tracing their family tree back to a village in Galicia in 1596 but seem strangely ignorant of the African and Native roots and referencing this tends to get an aggressive response.Comment
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I don't think that's clear at all, and I think you're really stretching claiming her expression registered disgust.Originally posted by Tactical Genius View PostComment
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Which bit of what I said that you dontd agree with as I made a few points you quoted. I can understand you not getting it. I guess some people or more sensitive to comments than others. I will admit that I may be reading too much into this as you say. However, this comes hot on the heels of her trying to Grandfather Latinos into the reparations debate.Originally posted by Lurgee View PostLast edited by Tactical Genius; 12-02-2019, 18:42.Comment
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Biden only at 68%? I'm surprised. I hope he doesn't run, but I'm surprised it's that low.
Presumably any of the governors running (Hickenlooper, Inslee, Bullock) will change the odds of the others getting into the race.
I can't believe that the remaining comedy candidates (Bloomberg, De Blasio, Moulton, Ryan, Kerry, Holder) are still half expected to join in, considering how little traction the other comedy candidates (Gabbard, Buttigieg, Ojeda, Delaney, etc) have got yet.Comment
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Reports out that Lyndon LaRouche has diedComment
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The Queen must be laughing her ass off.Comment
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When she's not busy running her multinational drug dealing empireComment
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Chapo goes down for life and Lyndon buys the farm within hours of each other.
Quite the day for Brenda.Comment
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Which bit of what I said that you dontd agree with as I made a few points you quoted. I can understand you not getting it. I guess some people or more sensitive to comments than others. I will admit that I may be reading too much into this as you say. However, this comes hot on the heels of her trying to Grandfather Latinos into the reparations debate.
Do you have a link for that TG? I have no idea what she said. She's obviously said something to annoy you, and you're going to be much more attuned to picking up issues and problems wrt this sort of thing than I am. But I must say that I didn't see that as disgust at being black. I can't even see a flicker. I mean he's just after saying that if she goes back relatively few generations in the scheme of things she's going to start meeting a lot of africans, so it wouldn't make sense. I don't recall seeing any other hispanic politicians drawing specific attention to having African ancestry. I also would assume that when she checks herself that she was had chosen the wrong link word, I mean she was only going to say about herself what she would suggest to someone in Elizabeth Warren's position. i.e. she wasn't going to claim to be black or native american, or speak for them, but had sympathy with them from a sense of shared heritage and would support measures to help them. Tbh, I think that whole interview is very strong. I've never heard an american politician give an interview like that before. She's not afraid to talk about complicated things directly and clearly. I've certainly never seen an Irish politician talk like that. (Also I think it might be a stretch to suggest a link between pointing to spanish colonial ancestors as an appeal to white supremacists. Traditional white supremacist theology doesn't see much difference between southern europeans and North africans.)Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 12-02-2019, 22:31.Comment
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Agreed. AOC can suggest on American TV that being Latino helps her understand being black and, bizarrely, get away with it. Because in the USA, Latino is just another word for brown.The US media uses Latino as a catch-all term for people from the Americas with a Spanish speaking background. By that definition it's a huge group of people. It includes native peoples, descendents of African slaves, Italian farmers, Spanish aristocracy, Japanese-Peruvians, etc. If Edinson Cavani moved to New York and became a US citizen, should he identify as a Latino or an Italian-American?This is why many Latinos are excellent at tracing their family tree back to a village in Galicia in 1596 but seem strangely ignorant of the African and Native roots and referencing this tends to get an aggressive response
There's just as much racism in the rest of the Americas as in the USA. A lot of the socio-economic problems are split down race lines. Look at Brazil. Or the split in Venezuela. So yeah, AOC is talking out of her hole. It would be like me telling a Surinamese person in Holland that I understand their plight because I also grew up in Holland as a foreigner. Sure, there's overlap and some shared experiences, but it's not the same thing, is it.
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It's extremely poor history from AOC because race in the Spanish empire developed differently than in the British and subsequently American one. Even if she can prove she has some African genetics, the fate of African descendants under the British and Americans was often bleaker than under the Spanish, with no hope of ever being regarded as multiracial due to to the one-drop rule. There was no Jim Crow in Puerto Rico AFAIK.
Black could be absorbed into 'Latinx' but never into 'American', which was always white and largely still is except in progressive states.
She needs to stop winging it on topics where she is ill-informed.Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 13-02-2019, 00:43.Comment
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this is really fuckin depressing. People ought to stop having rara fuck yeah faith in folk egomaniacal enough to run for office. At best we'll get another Obama well meaning but useless disappointment.Comment
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Meh. Nobody who wants to run for office is likely to be a particularly impressive person. Absolutely none of them will have not said something daft, stupid, ill-considered or ill-informed on the way there. We're lucky every time we get a President who's not utterly abhorrent, and we're pretty lucky even when we get a Democratic candidate who isn't.
Holding them to ridiculously high standards is the right thing to do, but getting depressed or upset when they miss one way or another is foolish.Comment
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It isn't hard to identify the posters who live here.Comment
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