Someone Has To Do It: US Elections 2020

[Bruno]

Heh, he left out a crucial adjective before "Anarchists" there.

[sw2borshch]

[San Bernardhinault]

I feel moderately confident in stating that neither the 25th amendment will be invoked nor will impeachment be successfully prosecuted in the next 13 days.

[ursus arctos]

That's a dumb system.

It wasn't really designed for a situation in which the President and Vice President had adversarial interests

[ursus arctos]

They didn't send their best people

https://twitter.com/mrskhandicoated/status/1347260573252280326

[Hot Pepsi]

Diable Rouge No

The 25th Amendment process expressly requires the VP's active participation

That's a dumb system.

[Amor de Cosmos]

He kinda looks like a Labor Secretary should look.

[Bruno]

Setting aside the person on the street interviewing power of Donie O'Sullivan.

[Diable Rouge]

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1347253722422894594

Given his background on both sides, he could well be the most powerful Irish-speaker on the planet.

[jwdd27]

Did she discuss the actual option that she has the power of using, or is she only putting the responsibility on the cabinet?

She said that Congress will impeach if 25th is not invoked. I didn't hear a deadline though.

I've no doubt Trump will disappear to Florida for a few rounds of golf over the weekend, then there will only be a week left, so it won't be worth it, and as above Pence can run the country as he did yesterday.

[ursus arctos]

She's holding impeachment as the stick if they don't take the 25th Amendment carrot

https://twitter.com/business/status/1347259744147402752

[Bruno]

The 25th Amendment is a nonstarter. The fight over that, if it were invoked, could legally extend past Inauguration Day. Impeachment is more realistic.

[G-Man]

Pelosi has thrown down the gauntlet. If Pence and the cabinet won't do anything, Congress will. And that would put lots of Republicans in difficult situation: vote to impeach and risk the backlash, or vote to support a president over an act they have denounced. So those Republicans, your McConnells might see virtue in pressuring cabinet to invoke the 25th, so that they won't have to deal with this shitstorm.

On CNN, Carl Bernstein hinted that constitutional means may be available to isolate Trump and render him more powerless, which would be a third way.

But, clearly, riding out the next 13 days is not the ideal option, and not one the Dems are willing to take.

[ursus arctos]

Diable Rouge No

The 25th Amendment process expressly requires the VP's active participation

[Amor de Cosmos]

McConnell is not part of that process - it would be Pence and the majority of the Cabinet, at least one of whom (Pompeo) has 2024 POTUS ambitions.

But I've concluded that it might be better just to work around Trump, as they did yesterday, on the understanding that the military and Cabinet would refuse to follow unconstitutional orders.

In the short term for sure, but removal from office would prevent him from running from office in four years, which he's suggested he'll do. That's also why impeachment is also being called for, though it wouldn't take effect until Biden's in office.

[Diable Rouge]

McConnell is not part of that process - it would be Pence and the majority of the Cabinet, at least one of whom (Pompeo) has 2024 POTUS ambitions.

But I've concluded that it might be better just to work around Trump, as they did yesterday, on the understanding that the military and Cabinet would refuse to follow unconstitutional orders.

Wouldn't Pence have to recuse himself on conflict of interest grounds, given he could be President for a fortnight?

[scratchmonkey]

Similarly, I'd have thought co-operativism would have been a sustainable political and economic option for community-focused parties on the left, but outside of elements in UK Labour, it never seems to have gained much electoral traction.

The rise of the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) here is interesting as they definitely fill that space and are organized around local chapters that concentrate on community action and down-ballot political races, public transit boards and the like.

[Incandenza]

Nancy Pelosi calls for the 25th amendment to remove Trump. Will McConnell and Pence agree...?


I'm guessing not. There'll be a lot of "Let's put it all behind us" going on today.

Did she discuss the actual option that she has the power of using, or is she only putting the responsibility on the cabinet?

[Satchmo Distel]

McConnell is not part of that process - it would be Pence and the majority of the Cabinet, at least one of whom (Pompeo) has 2024 POTUS ambitions.

But I've concluded that it might be better just to work around Trump, as they did yesterday, on the understanding that the military and Cabinet would refuse to follow unconstitutional orders.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Nancy Pelosi calls for the 25th amendment to remove Trump. Will McConnell and Pence agree...?


I'm guessing not. There'll be a lot of "Let's put it all behind us" going on today.

[Diable Rouge]

RE: political identification, there is Communalism, which was Bookchin's attempt to move modern concepts of self-governance past the associations with the word 'anarchist'. Hasn't really caught on though. (And in terms of historical precedents, it's a clear descendant of old-school Anarcho-Syndicalism.) It also does a good job tying in the efforts of those like the Dorothy Day Catholics or the Quakers.

For myself, as a self-identified anarchist, I feel that a "true" anarchic state of society would be near-impossible to maintain and would probably be a lot worse than most of our current systems for vulnerable populations. Instead, I view anarchism as a societal force of opposition in the classic geometry sense, that it is necessary to push against totalitarianism/authoritarianism through advocating for the reduction of state power and generating positive action through community-based organizations.

Similarly, I'd have thought co-operativism would have been a sustainable political and economic option for community-focused parties on the left, but outside of elements in UK Labour, it never seems to have gained much electoral traction.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Is it stupid to assume that each person who entered the Capitol will be hunted down and seriously prosecuted with long jail terms being handed out so that they know the state is serious about stopping this kind of shit.

I really don't know but it's possible that, if there's the will, they might come close. 300 people were charged in the 2011 Stanley Cup riots in Vancouver, all but seven were convicted. The much bigger UK riots that Summer led to 1,566 prosecutions, and 1,292 sentences. Thing is it'll probably take years — it was three here in Vancouver — before the process is complete.

[anton pulisov]

Biden's monotonous anger is tiring.

[Hot Pepsi]

I'm more concerned about the power of the ownership class than state power, per se, to be honest, but otherwise that all makes sense.

[scratchmonkey]

RE: political identification, there is Communalism, which was Bookchin's attempt to move modern concepts of self-governance past the associations with the word 'anarchist'. Hasn't really caught on though. (And in terms of historical precedents, it's a clear descendant of old-school Anarcho-Syndicalism.) It also does a good job tying in the efforts of those like the Dorothy Day Catholics or the Quakers.

For myself, as a self-identified anarchist, I feel that a "true" anarchic state of society would be near-impossible to maintain and would probably be a lot worse than most of our current systems for vulnerable populations. Instead, I view anarchism as a societal force of opposition in the classic geometry sense, that it is necessary to push against totalitarianism/authoritarianism through advocating for the reduction of state power and generating positive action through community-based organizations.