Someone Has To Do It: US Elections 2020

[Bruno]

My problems with Trump are pre-policy and I've never been a single-issue voter.

I don't think it boils down to who's more "evil" but I'm pretty confident about who's more corrupt and therefore destructive. If black people would be or feel worse off under Biden for specific policy reasons, that's fair enough. I see Trump as more of an existential threat to everyone regardless of policy. I could never see voting for the bigger existential threat.

[Tactical Genius]

My problems with Trump are pre-policy and I've never been a single-issue voter.

I don't think it boils down to who's more "evil" but I'm pretty confident about who's more corrupt and therefore destructive. If black people would be or feel worse off under Biden for specific policy reasons, that's fair enough. I see Trump as more of an existential threat to everyone regardless of policy. I could never see voting for the bigger existential threat.

And that's the point I am making.
I can fully understand why you would choose Biden over Trump if you are Poor White, Hispanic, LGBT or an undocumented migrant, but that is not what is being discussed here. And the Democrats no matter how much they try cannot win a Presidential election without the black vote and haven't done so for at least 60 years.

Also, you introduced the concept of lesser of two evils and it looks like you are now abandoning that line of debate 4 hours later or have i misread you?

[Tactical Genius]

My problems with Trump are pre-policy and I've never been a single-issue voter.

I don't think it boils down to who's more "evil" but I'm pretty confident about who's more corrupt and therefore destructive. If black people would be or feel worse off under Biden for specific policy reasons, that's fair enough. I see Trump as more of an existential threat to everyone regardless of policy. I could never see voting for the bigger existential threat.

And that's the point I am making.
I can fully understand why you would choose Biden over Trump if you are Poor White, Hispanic, LGBT or an undocumented migrant, but that is not what is being discussed here. And the Democrats no matter how much they try cannot win a Presidential election without the black vote and haven't done so for at least 60 years.

Also, you introduced the concept of lesser of two evils and it looks like you are now abandoning that line of debate 4 hours later or have i misread you?

Also, some black people might find you calling their agenda single issue disrespectful and patronising. Can you point out the single Issue I have articulated in my last half dozen posts on this thread please.

[Bruno]

Lesser of two evils is just an expression that means less bad but still bad. For many reasons Biden is that.

[Bruno]

I'm not really interested in the combative approach you're taking. You struck me as "single issue" in terms of evaluating the candidates' policies toward a single demographic.

[Diable Rouge]

The very nub of psephology that has arisen not just in the US, but also in the UK, and any other electoral system that has essentially ossified into a duopoly, is that identity politics has unfortunately become a straitjacket, serving to suffocate choice not just for the targeted voters, but also the political parties who are micro-finessing their electoral messages to the nth degree.

Just as Irish-Americans identified with the Democrats originally, but increasingly gravitated to the Republicans as they became more gentrified and integrated into the political mainstream, so TG is well within his rights to state that African-American voters have no automatic obligation to vote Democrat. That said, while Trump and the GOP may well be the best electoral fit for middle class and entrepreneurial blacks, their socio-economic policies hardly benefit working-class African Americans, any more than they do poor Hispanics or Anglos.

[ad hoc]

I'm not really interested in the combative approach you're taking. You struck me as "single issue" in terms of evaluating the candidates' policies toward a single demographic.

That's not really "single issue" though is it?

[Bruno]

I guess it depends how you look at it. It sounded like the reason TG wouldn't/couldn't vote for Biden and appeared to discount other considerations for him. I've often heard the term used in that context and also realize there's more than one 'issue" affecting any given demographic.

[San Bernardhinault]

I have sometimes considered TG's approach to be single issue - in that he considers reparations to be the key issue. That if a candidate doesn't consider reparations for slavery, then they are basically continuing the disenfranchisation of black people in America.

I assumed that's how he came to this, from the previous page: Sanders outright told black people he will not do shit for them as it will be "too Divisive".

[Diable Rouge]

That's not really "single issue" though is it?

Little point though in saying "my enemy's enemy is my friend" if the net impact of said enemy's enemy on the entire electorate will be worse than the minuscule personal satisfaction.

[ad hoc]

Little point though in saying "my enemy's enemy is my friend" if the net impact of said enemy's enemy on the entire electorate will be worse than the minuscule personal satisfaction.

I don't follow. He hasn't said that

[Bruno]

"single issue" is often used in the sine qua non sense isn't it?

[ad hoc]

I dunno rich people who make millions off the system vote for the party /politician who allows them to pay low taxes and squirrel their money away in the Caymans and continue to exploit workers and so on. We don't call them single issue

[Diable Rouge]

I don't follow. He hasn't said that

He's saying that black voters should opt for Trump because Biden's voting history is so terrible, rather than any benefit they may actually gain from the incumbent.

[Bruno]

I would have no problem calling them single issue.

[ad hoc]

He's saying that black voters should opt for Trump because Biden's voting history is so terrible, rather than any benefit they may actually gain from the incumbent.

He's not said that black voters should opt for Trump

[Bruno]

It seemed like a reasonable inference to me anyway.

[San Bernardhinault]

He did say that he'd vote for Trump over a Biden/Harris ticket on the previous page.

[ad hoc]

I would have no problem calling them single issue.

OK what about middle class white people who are doing sort of alright for themselves voting for the party which does a little bit of social justice without rocking the boat too much

[ad hoc]

He did say that he'd vote for Trump over a Biden/Harris ticket on the previous page.

"if forced to". He didn't make any claim that "black voters should..."

[Bruno]

So we shouldn't jump to conclude that he thinks black voters "should" do what he thinks is in their better interest?

OK what about middle class white people who are doing sort of alright for themselves voting for the party which does a little bit of social justice without rocking the boat too much

Again, I'm used to hearing "single issue voter" being invoked on behalf of certain deal-breakers. It's drawing a line in the sand, or saying "if you don't address X I'm not interested in anything else." Are we using the term differently? I think a lot of Trump supporters hate him but are "single issue" about protecting their money.

[ad hoc]

As far as I can see TG has made the point (pretty convincingly) that the Dems shouldn't bank on the black vote given Biden's history.

[Diable Rouge]

No more than any other racial group, of course.

[ad hoc]

I feel pretty uncomfortable being in the role of explaining what TG is saying. I think he's been pretty clear, and I think there's a lot of wild extrapolation going on.

[Bruno]

As far as I can see TG has made the point (pretty convincingly) that the Dems shouldn't bank on the black vote given Biden's history.

He has made that point but also invited direct comparison to Trump, which muddies the water a bit.