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Someone Has To Do It: US Elections 2020

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    I don't have the energy to try to describe the Ilhan Omar story.

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      Same

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        I'm taking a nuanced view of it.

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          https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1095080391084523520

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            ha wow

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              Is the story something like "paid lobbyists are horrified that somebody has pointed out that they're paid"?

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                It's more that politicians who have been taking large amounts of interest group money for decades are SHOCKED! and APPALLED! at the suggestion that money plays a role in politics.

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                  Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                  I listened to that. She has been forced to address black people by name (finally) but apart from helping households earning less than $100k

                  Did everyone hear the comments by OTF's favourite American politician on meet the press. The more I hear her voice, the more I don't like her.
                  Who is it and what did she say?

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                    Is it possible for any elected Democrat to criticize AIPAC without Pelosi and Schumer forcing them to retract? What form of words would they accept as not antisemitic?

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                      https://twitter.com/CoreyRobin/status/1095051623859011584

                      To say that groups funded to lobby on Israel do exactly that is dismissed as "antisemitic" as is saying that the state of Israel (like every other nation) intervenes officially and unofficially to get its message across- even though there is ample evidence that they do just that.

                      Nothing makes me more angry than the strategic weaponisation of "antisemitism"- by which I mean not the physically attacks on Jews, discrimination against Jews, prejudice against Jews, asides about Jews or threats to Jewish existence which I'd guess every person of Jewish heritage has experienced, but the nigh-on impossible negotiation of criticising a powerful and wealthy lobby without mentioning its power or its wealth or using any image, rhetorical flourish or comparison which can be constructed as offensive - whilst at the same time the state of Israel and its allies in the US and UK are quite happy to find common cause and make alliances with actual antisemites from Steve Bannon or Viktor Orban, to Marine Le Pen Tommy Robinson or the "Alternative für Deutschland."
                      Last edited by Nefertiti2; 12-02-2019, 06:11.

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                        Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post

                        Who is it and what did she say?
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wypN0PChAtg&t=230s

                        AOC. Listen to what she says and see if you can spot the offensive bit.

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                          Her comments in Full...

                          "I'm latina (with accent).

                          And Latino Americans have a really interesting identity. because as especially for me as a Puerto Rican woman. my identity is as a descendant of many different identities. I am the descendant of African slaves. I am the descendant of indigenous peoples, I am the descendant of Spanish Colonisers, I am the descendant of all sorts of folks.
                          That doesn't mean i'm black (note facial expression), that doesn't mean i'm, you know native.
                          But it does mean I can use that as....(then she catches herself and tries to roll back) I can tell the story of my ancestors. That doesn't mean i'm THAT (note facial expression)."

                          So, she identifies as Spanish yet is trying to talk for black people, After the J-lo Grammys debacle, Michelle Rodriguez Liam Neeson comments yet more Latino insults.
                          The only thing worse than a White Supremacist is a White Supremacist wannabee as they go the extra mile to prove themselves.

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                            When she says it doesn't mean she's black, I think she's trying to assure black people that she's not claiming their identity, i.e. pulling an Elizabeth Warren.

                            But yeah, some serious rambling going on there. I was hoping she'd try to keep away from the identity politics. edit: Maybe she has consultants whispering in her ears now?
                            Last edited by anton pulisov; 12-02-2019, 12:43.

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                              whoa, hold on here. There's a bit missing there, she's not talking in the abstract, she's talking about Elizabeth warren, who was claiming membership of a native american tribe on the basis of one ancestor, She's saying that having an ancestor from a particular group doesn't allow you to claim full membership of that group but allows you to support that group and be an ally. In the way that having many black ancestors, or native american ancestors, or spanish ancestors Doesn't allows AOC to claim that she is black, or native american or Spanish. She gets to call herself a Puerto Rican which is a combination of all of these things, which allows her to identify to a degree with all of these groups, but not claim to be any one of them in particular. She's effectively trying to explain to the the huge numbers of white americans that have a family tree made up of a variety of northern european white protestants, that the one non-wasp ancestor in your background doesn't entitle you to a face tattoo, but should encourage you to try and support that community, and then stretch that attitude towards other groups because it's a complicated world out there.

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                                Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                                https://twitter.com/CoreyRobin/status/1095051623859011584

                                To say that groups funded to lobby on Israel do exactly that is dismissed as "antisemitic" as is saying that the state of Israel (like every other nation) intervenes officially and unofficially to get its message across- even though there is ample evidence that they do just that.

                                Nothing makes me more angry than the strategic weaponisation of "antisemitism"- by which I mean not the physically attacks on Jews, discrimination against Jews, prejudice against Jews, asides about Jews or threats to Jewish existence which I'd guess every person of Jewish heritage has experienced, but the nigh-on impossible negotiation of criticising a powerful and wealthy lobby without mentioning its power or its wealth or using any image, rhetorical flourish or comparison which can be constructed as offensive - whilst at the same time the state of Israel and its allies in the US and UK are quite happy to find common cause and make alliances with actual antisemites from Steve Bannon or Viktor Orban, to Marine Le Pen Tommy Robinson or the "Alternative für Deutschland."
                                The ironic thing is that so much of the criticism of Omar saying "it's about the Benjamins" was saying that she was making the claim that a secret group of rich Jews try to control politicians. By making any sort of criticism of AIPAC beyond the pale, these people are trying to make sure that AIPAC remains in the shadows and can't be discussed, in effect trying to make them a secret group.

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                                  Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                                  whoa, hold on here. There's a bit missing there, she's not talking in the abstract, she's talking about Elizabeth warren, who was claiming membership of a native american tribe on the basis of one ancestor, She's saying that having an ancestor from a particular group doesn't allow you to claim full membership of that group but allows you to support that group and be an ally. In the way that having many black ancestors, or native american ancestors, or spanish ancestors Doesn't allows AOC to claim that she is black, or native american or Spanish. She gets to call herself a Puerto Rican which is a combination of all of these things, which allows her to identify to a degree with all of these groups, but not claim to be any one of them in particular. She's effectively trying to explain to the the huge numbers of white americans that have a family tree made up of a variety of northern european white protestants, that the one non-wasp ancestor in your background doesn't entitle you to a face tattoo, but should encourage you to try and support that community, and then stretch that attitude towards other groups because it's a complicated world out there.
                                  Yeah, I don't see anything wrong or offensive with what AOC said. The "I can use that to tell the story" bit makes me roll my eyes a little, but--and very few politicians do this--she's pointing out that many Latinxs are the product of a lot of racial, national, and class mixing, not all of it a simple feel-good story. That there isn't one Cuban, or Puerto Rican, or Mexican identity, especially among people in the USA.

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                                    Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
                                    When she says it doesn't mean she's black, I think she's trying to assure black people that she's not claiming their identity, i.e. pulling an Elizabeth Warren.

                                    But yeah, some serious rambling going on there. I was hoping she'd try to keep away from the identity politics. edit: Maybe she has consultants whispering in her ears now?
                                    "But it does mean I can use that as....(then she catches herself and tries to roll back) I can tell the story of my ancestors."
                                    Now, we can only speculate what she was going to say before she attempted to correct herself mid-sentence but she was clearly trying to claim some kind of advocacy on behalf of Black people and indigenous people of the Americas.
                                    I have no problem with who or what she identifies as, despite the look of disgust on her face when clarifying she wasn't black. The same face you would pull when explaining to someone that despite having itchy balls, you don't have AIDS.
                                    I object to people who try and claim advocacy or to speak for/on behalf of a group she made plain she isn't a part of. That however does not stop her having an opinion like anyone else.
                                    That's like me saying I can tell the story of Irish people because my old man liked a pint of Guinness almost as much as Berbaslug. All this cultural appropriation nonsense has just got out of hand. Plus what's it got to do with her what Elizabeth Warren identifies as?


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                                      Originally posted by Incandenza View Post

                                      Yeah, I don't see anything wrong or offensive with what AOC said. The "I can use that to tell the story" bit makes me roll my eyes a little, but--and very few politicians do this--she's pointing out that many Latinxs are the product of a lot of racial, national, and class mixing, not all of it a simple feel-good story. That there isn't one Cuban, or Puerto Rican, or Mexican identity, especially among people in the USA.
                                      That's what she ended up saying, Lord knows what she was going to say before she engaged her brain, I really fear for your eyes had you heard it.

                                      I am well aware of some of the issues in Latin America (and the Carribbean) and their black population which is almost invisible until bodies are needed for the national football team.

                                      It goes back the the Reconquista, the Spanish inquision and stuff like this:
                                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limpieza_de_sangre
                                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta

                                      This is why many Latinos are excellent at tracing their family tree back to a village in Galicia in 1596 but seem strangely ignorant of the African and Native roots and referencing this tends to get an aggressive response.

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                                        Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                                        "But it does mean I can use that as....(then she catches herself and tries to roll back) I can tell the story of my ancestors."
                                        Now, we can only speculate what she was going to say before she attempted to correct herself mid-sentence but she was clearly trying to claim some kind of advocacy on behalf of Black people and indigenous people of the Americas.
                                        I have no problem with who or what she identifies as, despite the look of disgust on her face when clarifying she wasn't black. The same face you would pull when explaining to someone that despite having itchy balls, you don't have AIDS.
                                        I don't think that's clear at all, and I think you're really stretching claiming her expression registered disgust.

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                                          Originally posted by Lurgee View Post

                                          I don't think that's clear at all, and I think you're really stretching claiming her expression registered disgust.
                                          Which bit of what I said that you dontd agree with as I made a few points you quoted. I can understand you not getting it. I guess some people or more sensitive to comments than others. I will admit that I may be reading too much into this as you say. However, this comes hot on the heels of her trying to Grandfather Latinos into the reparations debate.
                                          Last edited by Tactical Genius; 12-02-2019, 18:42.

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                                            https://twitter.com/SarahLerner/status/1095400427019853824

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                                              Biden only at 68%? I'm surprised. I hope he doesn't run, but I'm surprised it's that low.

                                              Presumably any of the governors running (Hickenlooper, Inslee, Bullock) will change the odds of the others getting into the race.

                                              I can't believe that the remaining comedy candidates (Bloomberg, De Blasio, Moulton, Ryan, Kerry, Holder) are still half expected to join in, considering how little traction the other comedy candidates (Gabbard, Buttigieg, Ojeda, Delaney, etc) have got yet.

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                                                Reports out that Lyndon LaRouche has died

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                                                  The Queen must be laughing her ass off.

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