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A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

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    A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

    Not my words - The words of the Times Higher Education Supplement.

    Well, okay - not their words, either, but the words of Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Ulster.

    So - is God dead ...or just busy getting his PR people to 'dumb down' his message for the masses?

    #2
    A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

    I'd be careful before you line Richard Lynn on your side. He's the guy who has spent his life proving that African Americans are smarter the more "white" they are, and that men are more intelligent than women.

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      #3
      A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

      Sensible policies for a happy America.

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        #4
        A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

        OFFS, what a prick. Of course, the only thing that is common among academics is a high IQ. It sounds like this paper demonstrates nothing like what Lynn claims.If you want to establish a link between IQ and religious belief, wouldn't it be better to survey IQ and religious belief, rather than academic status and religious belief?

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          #5
          A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

          Ginger Yellow wrote:
          OFFS, what a prick. Of course, the only thing that is common among academics is a high IQ. It sounds like this paper demonstrates nothing like what Lynn claims.If you want to establish a link between IQ and religious belief, wouldn't it be better to survey IQ and religious belief, rather than academic status and religious belief?
          Yes, quite. The moment I read the article I thought "Hmmm... dodgy bloke!" However, I thought I'd flag it up for an OTF kicking, as it has, after all, made it into one of the most-read academic magazines in Britain.

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            #6
            A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

            Although, admittedly, one that has gone downhill fast since the re-design.

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              #7
              A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

              Antonio Gramsci wrote:
              Although, admittedly, one that has gone downhill fast since the re-design.
              I noticed that too - which is why all I could think of to say about it was 'most-read'!

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                #8
                A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                They've cut all the good international bits...and the old international correspondents have now formed their own e-magazine which is quite good (and free!).

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                  #9
                  A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                  If only we had a theistic academic among us. Preferably one that thought he was quite clever.

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                    #10
                    A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                    Who?

                    I spent a brief period about ten years ago as a theistic academic, but I never fancied myself as very clever.

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                      #11
                      A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                      I believe Wyatt's talking about Toro (who is theistic but not a creationist).

                      And possibly trying to start a quarrel while he's at it, I can't tell.

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                        #12
                        A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                        No, I think Wyatt was just engaging in one of his customary teasing comments there.

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                          #13
                          A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                          Toro's usually OK at picking up tone (with the odd striking exception), so I didn't think the risk of a quarrel was severe. (Though I was willing to run it, I guess.)

                          More seriously, I suspect there is an effect here, though not what this guy seems to think it is. My guess is that a lot of people's religion is quite conventional, and relatively unexamined, and that education can be quite disruptive of that sort of thing.

                          The reflectiveness that education can engender won't lead everyone away from conventional religion to atheism, but it will lead some there: enough to create the kind of significant statistical effect this guy reports. It will lead others to a more examined form of religion, though.

                          If he's saying "Brainy people are atheists because religion is stupid," he's being naive about causation.

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                            #14
                            A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                            He doesn't seem to be making the case about eduction, though, does he? It seems to be more about IQ.

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                              #15
                              A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                              The reflectiveness that education can engender won't lead everyone away from conventional religion to atheism, but it will lead some there: enough to create the kind of significant statistical effect this guy reports. It will lead others to a more examined form of religion, though.
                              To a large extent, it depends on what sort of education they have. I studied religion and philosophy of religion, so I was running right into the teeth of the issue and was transformed because of it. But people with PhDs in econometrics or mid-20th century French landscape architecture would probably count as educated - more educated than me - but may never have had to think too hard about their religion.

                              I've also seen education lead people from agnosticism or atheism to absolute certain belief in some very convoluted New Agey shit. It's a relatively straight-forward case of smart people "over thinking" things a bit.

                              I've also seen otherwise very bright students go in for very simplistic, conservative, fundamentalist stuff even thought their parents raised them to be atheist or at least liberal and open-minded. A lot of 18 and 19 year olds are totally freaked-out by the whirlwind of ideas and controversies, not to mention the personal frustrations and confusions, that they encounter when they first get to college. Fundamentalist Christianity (and sometimes fundamentalist Islam or Judaism) offers the mentally calm waters of absolute moral certainty and, in the US at least, instant acceptance from a big group of people who will at least pretend to be your friend.

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                                #16
                                A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                                He added that most Western countries had seen a decline of religious belief in the 20th century at the same time as their populations had become more intelligent.
                                Have people really become more 'intelligent' in the 20th century?

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                                  #17
                                  A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                                  IQ wise, yes - they constantly have to rebase it. Whether or not that implies actual improvements in a unified concept of intelligence (problematic in itself) is another matter entirely.

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                                    #18
                                    A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                                    Toro's usually OK at picking up tone (with the odd striking exception), so I didn't think the risk of a quarrel was severe. (Though I was willing to run it, I guess.)
                                    Grr, you fucking c&*t, etc.

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                                      #19
                                      A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                                      I met Lynn a couple of times when I was a student. Enthusiastic drinker, generally sound on constitutional issues.

                                      Another regular on student-pulling trips to the pub was Adrian Guelke, a South African whom PW Botha's goons tried to assassinate while he was at Vicky Verky University.

                                      You would think they could have sub-contracted the job locally.

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                                        #20
                                        A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                                        See, I actually enjoy lurking on Toro-Wyatt quarrels. I may be in a minority in feeling this, but I think I usually learn quite a lot.

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                                          #21
                                          A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                                          I like online arguments full stop, so long as there's a bit of content, which there always is on OTF.

                                          Anyway. I've known more than one person with a PhD in divinity and a vocation although only one actually is a clergyman now.

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                                            #22
                                            A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                                            Antonio Gramsci wrote:
                                            See, I actually enjoy lurking on Toro-Wyatt quarrels. I may be in a minority in feeling this, but I think I usually learn quite a lot.
                                            About the subject of the argument, or about those two individuals? Or both? For me I think it's both.

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                                              #23
                                              A kick in the teeth for those thick creationists!

                                              WornOldMotorbike wrote:
                                              He doesn't seem to be making the case about eduction, though, does he? It seems to be more about IQ.
                                              Yeah, but the point is they're correlated, and if education is associated with a wider range of theological positions than lack of education (which seems plausible), that's your effect explained right there.

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