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    So Mitterrand then

    Major figure, don't know much about him. Had my curiosity prompted by a godawful-looking book in the library written by some Spectator bloke. He contrasted "the ageing monarch" Mitterrand with Thatcher's dynamism. He also dismissed the TGV in two lines, something about "the grass being greener on the other side" and high fares. He didn't like centralism either, something not unknown in France, and what is called "leadership" when it's people he likes, no doubt.

    So who's good on the subject?

    #2
    So Mitterrand then

    This is that feeble looking book:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Death-Politics-France-Under-Mitterrand/dp/071810028X

    Comment


      #3
      So Mitterrand then

      A massively complex and conflicted figure.

      Start here, if you can find it.

      Tony Judt also wrote a number of good pieces on him for the New York Review of Books, so I would expect the coverage in Judt's Postwar (which I have yet to read) to be good.

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        #4
        So Mitterrand then

        Acquired for a penny plus postage (£2.75). What a great place this is.

        Don't let that shut down the thread though.

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          #5
          So Mitterrand then

          I've started it, and reads splendidly. It does only go up to 1984 though. Can Ursus or anyone suggest one which goes up to 1995?

          Anyone know what this one is like?

          http://www.amazon.co.uk/Francois-Mitterrand-Ronald-Tiersky/dp/0312129084/ref=sr_1_4?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285712325&sr=8-4

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            #6
            So Mitterrand then

            Sorry, Tubbs, but my professional interest in him sort of disappeared in '89 or so and I didn't keep up. FM did get very strange towards the end, with the mistress and children, and the rapacious son, and the ortolans and all that.

            That said, Stanley Hoffman liked the Tiersky book and I generally trust his opinion on such things.

            See if you can get the Judt book from the library and take a look at the bibliography.

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              #7
              So Mitterrand then

              I'll save you the trouble. Judt's bibliography lists very few books on France published after 1990, and only one that doesn't deal either with earlier historical periods or with the general theme of European integration: Sudhir Hazareesingh's Political Traditions in Modern France, which I suspect isn't what you're looking for.

              How's your French? Pierre Favier and Michel-Martin Riland wrote a 4-book history of the Mitterand Presidency called La Decennie Mitterand which I believe is considered to be the standard.

              Urs, What's an ortolan?

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                #8
                So Mitterrand then

                For centuries, a rite of passage for French gourmets has been the eating of the Ortolan. These tiny birds—captured alive, force-fed, then drowned in Armagnac—were roasted whole and eaten that way, bones and all, while the diner draped his head with a linen napkin to preserve the precious aromas and, some believe, to hide from God.
                FM's last meal.

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                  #9
                  So Mitterrand then

                  Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. Fucking hell. Drowned in Armagnac? As a last meal?

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                    #10
                    So Mitterrand then

                    Andrew Hussey did a program about French food which began with a description of that meal (or course). He also suggested another reason for eating it under a napkin.

                    You don't really want to look across the table and see someone eating with a little birds head poking out of their mouth.

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                      #11
                      So Mitterrand then

                      Toto Gramsciddu wrote:
                      Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. Fucking hell. Drowned in Armagnac? As a last meal?
                      He lived another 10 days. Probably with indigestion?

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                        #12
                        So Mitterrand then

                        I'll go for the Tiersky then thanks.

                        The Red and The Black opens some early chapters with references to 1982 or thereabouts- huge amount of strangeness and contradictions there. At one point he made his spokesman (Beregovoy, who later committed suicide) announce that plans for maternity pay had been abandoned for "moral" reasons. Private (religious) education seemed to cause him a lot of trouble too.

                        God knows what he's like by 1995.

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                          #13
                          So Mitterrand then

                          I was thinking on the way in this morning that Miterrand is almost certainly the most intrinsically interesting EU leader of the post-De Gaulle period.

                          He isn't the most important (I'm afraid that will be the chemist from Grantham), but the combination of his doctrinal swings (Catholic rightist, shady early WWII record, member of the Resistance, Anti-Gaullist, Socialist, "Betrayer of the Revolution", etc.); outrageous policy actions (all of the Francophone Africa shenanigans featuring his son; Rainbow Warrior; etc.); and the bizarre private life (the "secret family"; falsified health records, ortolans, etc.) is unique.

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                            #14
                            So Mitterrand then

                            ursus arctos wrote:
                            He isn't the most important (I'm afraid that will be the chemist from Grantham)
                            Kohl? Re-unification was a big deal.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              So Mitterrand then

                              Toto Gramsciddu wrote:
                              ursus arctos wrote:
                              He isn't the most important (I'm afraid that will be the chemist from Grantham)
                              Kohl? Re-unification was a big deal.
                              What exactly was his specific unique contribution to that?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                So Mitterrand then

                                Managing it?

                                On November 10th, 1989, it wasn't exactly obvious that unification was the natural next step. Thatcher's instinct was to press hard to stop it. Mitterand put out a brilliant statement to the effect that "France feels no need to comment on any potential threat from re-unification".

                                Kohl sold the whole deal to the rest of Europe - inlcuding the Soviets - and managed a political and currency union in the space of 12 months. The single most peaceful expansion of territory in European history, over territory where hundreds of thousands of troops and thousands of nuclear missles had faced each other. Hands down the most amazing feat of politics in post-war histroy.

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                                  #17
                                  So Mitterrand then

                                  Even if you give Kohl that credit (and I think you overstate his case), what's the lasting impact (other than beggaring the German Treasury?).

                                  Thatcher introduced a wave of "revolutionary" economic policies that continue to effect the everyday lives of virtually every European.

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                                    #18
                                    So Mitterrand then

                                    We always used to hear that "Thatcherism is practised the world over". I used to think that was a massive exaggeration for Europe. To paraphrase Iain MacLeod on Enoch Powell, you can be a fellow traveller and still get off before the train hits the buffers. How far did they go and how Thatcherite (as opposed to rightwing) was it?

                                    In no more than 10,000 words per country.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      So Mitterrand then

                                      It's still happening Tubbs.

                                      Which is why there are 100,000 people on the streets of Brussels and Spain is having a general strike.

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                                        #20
                                        So Mitterrand then

                                        Indeed, but isn't that just the result of timeless fiscal conservatism? There wouldn't be a Euro at all had she had her way.

                                        It should also be remembered her social conservatism was routed.

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                                          #21
                                          So Mitterrand then

                                          ursus arctos wrote:
                                          It's still happening Tubbs.

                                          Which is why there are 100,000 people on the streets of Brussels and Spain is having a general strike.
                                          Those are two countries which have arguably remained more or less untouched by Thatcherism, I would have said. Moreover, the cuts that are being contemplated in these countries cannot really be described as Thatcherism, unless you also want to apply that label to the Labour budgets of '75 and '76 or to Johanna Sigurouradottir's current policies. (or however you spell that).

                                          As for Kohl, yes he beggared the treasury, but that's only looking at one side of the ledger. On the other side, there's a united Germany, which I think is a pretty lasting imapct.

                                          I suppose he could have done it more cheaply by going the Polish route and adminstering more shock therapy to the East German economy, but that would have been seen as Thatcherite, and so was unacceptable (wasn't it?).

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                                            #22
                                            So Mitterrand then

                                            Gramsci, I think that you are underestimating how completely marginal "neo liberal" thought was in Europe before Thatcher. My premise is that the "success" of Thatcherite policies in the UK caused other EU governments to at least contemplate similar measures for essentially the first time.

                                            The big mistake that was made in re-unification was setting the exchange rate at 1 to 1, which was entirely a political move and had no basis in economic reality.

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                                              #23
                                              So Mitterrand then

                                              ...and by "neo-liberal" and "Thatcherite" here you mean..?

                                              (I'm not trying to be difficult here, just trying to make sure we understand one another before getting to the historical record).

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                                                #24
                                                So Mitterrand then

                                                No time, sorry.

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                                                  #25
                                                  So Mitterrand then

                                                  okey-doke.

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