Originally posted by Guy Profumo
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Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View PostAgreed. and, predictably, taken a lot of flak from the likes of Sarah Ditum
Seriously who the fuck are these people, and why do they think this is OK?
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Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
She is fucking awesome. A lot of those points needed to be made, but only she could make them.
This is a typical article from the LGBT community that raises my hackles and really pisses me off.
They mention racism against people of colour and immigrants and call out white Supremacy. And I thought good, this is excellent.........
Until she listed the organisations where people should donate to help the afflicted and opressed.
She can in my opinion go do one.
This is a prime example why these LGBT organisations are viewed with suspicion from the black community.
It is not, as the chin stroking Liberals say that black society is homophobic or Transphobic, we object to being used as mascots for other people's issue only to be cut out of any benefits?
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Originally posted by WOM View PostSorry...I'm unclear what you're objecting to.
Ok, I'll break it down.
Make the extraordinary reaction to our attack the norm. I beg you to amplify and channel this energy to hold accountable the intersecting web of elected politicians, government agencies and corporations who have reinforced a status quo of clearly delineated inequality long before this single attack in 2019. Redirect your money from rainbow capitalism to people-of-colour-led organisations striving for justice. I donated to the Astraea Lesbian Foundation for Justice, Trans Women of Color Collective and Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund. Question why the photo of two attractive, white cisgender women compelled you to post about Pride for the first time.
Learn the names and stories of Muhlaysia Booker, Dana Martin, Chanel Scurlock. Elevate those who have been advocating for the basic rights and safety of communities marginalised by our existing political, economic and social structures long before I got punched in the face. Finding the right leaders takes some research and real-world activity. Their frequent absence from today’s headlines is not coincidental to their crusades. Stand up for yourselves and each other, and fight back.
Does that make sense?
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- Mar 2008
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- The House with the Golden Windows
- Fast falling out of love for football.
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Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
Seriously,
Ok, I'll break it down.
So she listed a broad range of oppressed people, then recommended money should be donated to a very small subsection of those oppressed people.
Does that make sense?
Go and find out for yourselves who are the oppressed of any community and donate to their cause(s) as you see fit, surely?
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Originally posted by Guy Profumo View Post
Used as examples?
Go and find out for yourselves who are the oppressed of any community and donate to their cause(s) as you see fit, surely?
You shouldn't be naming people you are not prepared to share the cheque with. And this is pretty common with other organisations using black people to further thier agenda and then dropping them when they have served their purpose. This is the same as the Jussie Smollett issue.
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Hold on, what? She's addressing people who are interested in financially supporting or campaigning for gay causes and telling them to give their money to the parts of the various communities most at risk. The three organizations are an organization supporting Lesbians of colour, An organization for transgender people of colour, and a broader Transgender umbrella group. she's not using black people to further any agenda, she's saying you should support their agenda, other than pointing out that the horrible thing that happened to her, is mild compared to what is happening to people less white, and less femme lesbian than them, She's not part of any wider group, she's not dropping anyone. She didn't have to say anything, and what she says is that if you think that what happened to her is bad, what is happening to other less media friendly victims is vastly worse, so you should really be supporting them. They get it from the homophobes and the racists, and get it twice as hard from the homophobic racists. One of those articles says that five black trans people were murdered in the US in May. That seems like...... a lot. I mean it seems fair enough for her to focus on victims of homophobic crime, because that's what happened to her.
What would you have liked her to have done?Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 17-06-2019, 19:48.
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Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View PostHold on, what? She's addressing people who are interested in financially supporting or campaigning for gay causes and telling them to give their money to the parts of the various communities most at risk. The three organizations are an organization supporting Lesbians of colour, An organization for transgender people of colour, and a broader Transgender umbrella group. she's not using black people to further any agenda, She's not part of any wider group, she's not dropping anyone. She didn't have to say anything. One of those articles says that five black trans people were murdered in the US in May. That seems like...... a lot. I mean it seems fair enough for her to focus on victims of homophobic crime, because that's what happened to her.
She didn't mention attacks on Gay and Transpeople of all colours, She talked about amongst other things racism and white Supremacy (which implies against black people).
What would you have liked her to have done?
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I’m not entirely sure I get TG’s objection. Is it the organizations she recommends that you don’t like? Perhaps I’m being dense.
Perhaps you object to her objection to a sincere effort to help LGBTQ people. That makes some sense to me, I think.
There is a tendency among a lot on the left to call out anything they find insufficiently woke or “too mainstream, man”, or not intersectional enough. I’m never entirely confident that these call-outs are motivated by a sincere effort to fix problems so much as a kind of competitive purity/virtue-signaling contest. I notice this especially among the people in their 20s that I follow on Instagram.
That’s not going to win many converts to the cause.
I understand that corporations and Major League Baseball teams displaying rainbow flags may not accomplish a hell of a lot and that the mainstreaming of LGBTQ people still mostly means white, cis, middle-class people and that there are still a lot of people on the margins. Especially transgender people, non-binary people, and anyone who stands out and/or doesn’t fit into what used to be called polite society. (Sex workers or ex-sex workers are an oft-cited example, though that strikes me as a separate issue.)
But young people, especially, don’t seem to understand how much blood, sweat and tears had to be shed just to get to this moment where attractive, white, cis gay people could have massively successful TV shows and a Major League Baseball team in the south could have a rainbow flag night. Certainly, when I was in college in the early 90s and, much to my shame, *just being made aware of these issues* I didn’t expect same sex marriage to be legal or normalized in my lifetime.
So this represents great progress. It’s not enough. Not nearly enough. But to roll your eyes and act like it’s just more capitalist bullshit and doesn’t count until a transsexual sex worker is president (or whatever far off milestone) pisses on all the work done and pain suffered (none of it by me, I’m somewhat ashamed to acknowledge) over many generations.
We we need to find better ways of commending the work done so far while also looking ahead.Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 17-06-2019, 20:14.
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Originally posted by Tactical Genius View PostSo she listed a broad range of oppressed people, then recommended money should be donated to a very small subsection of those oppressed people.
Does that make sense?
I have absolutely, positively no idea what this woman should have done differently - or could have done better - that would have made you happy. My takeaway is that she's trying to redirect the spotlight away from the 'pretty white ladies' toward marginalized people who could use the support much more....but don't easily get it. And this bothers you.
This, sir, is utterly fucking baffling.
On most days, you're working full time to find something to be offended by. This time, it appears you've hired staff and are paying them overtime.
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Hot Pepsi.
I’m not entirely sure I get TG’s objection. Is it the organizations she recommends that you don’t like? Perhaps I’m being dense.
Perhaps you object to her objection to a sincere effort to help LGBTQ people. That makes some sense to me, I think.
People shouldn't be harassed, physically or verbally abused because of the gender they choose to identify with or who they chose to share a bed with (as long as that other person is a consenting adult)
If she had recommended donating to organisations that fight racism, white Supremacy and persecution against Immigrants then I would be cheering the loudest on here.
She didn't which I believe is not an oversight but intentional and in my opinion to milk others suffering for the financial gain of her specific community. This is what I object to.
WOM.
There are many things I think you are, but stupid isn't one of them. If you disagree with my take on it, that is fine. Stop playing dumb and confused. If you disagree, that's fine.
I know you read my posts on such matters and you know there is a central consistent theme running through all of them (I know this as your response is always the same).
It's a tired old trick I have seen many times and is less impressive the more I see it.
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TG: I appreciate the balanced approach of flattery and condescension. It's rare. But I give you my word I'm not trying some 'tired old trick'; nor am I playing dumb and confused. I legitimately can't see where you'd finding the material for your anger and offense much of the time.
That's when I chime in occasionally on your other thread; to offer up the possibility that there's nothing there, and maybe you're looking too hard to spot 'white supremacy'. A phrase, incidentally, that I think you use to mean anything form genuine systemic, institutional, organized whites-first ideology all the way down to casual (or even unintended) racism. If you believe it's all the same thing, that's fine. I don't.
But here's the thing: you seem to have decided that you can't be wrong about these things, ever. If someone disagrees with you, they're playing a dumb trick, they're part of the problem, or they just don't 'get it'. I think my favourite trump card of yours ever was along the lines of "every member of my family has experienced racism every day of their lives, so don't you tell me that...." or something very close to that. I mean, how can you even begin to argue with that?
You speak of a central, consistent theme. And I agree completely. Hell, you've opened a storefront called The White Supremacy Thread and now you need merchandise to stock it. So, you see it everywhere now. It's a bit bonkers, frankly. But yes, I'm white and you're black so of course I'd say that and what do I know, etc etc. I know the drill.
So, once again, I tried to engage on this topic with you, and once again got shut down. So, okay, you win. Everyone's a racist. Even the woman who wrote an entire article for the guardian saying "hey, don't just look at the pretty white women....look at marginalized women of colour who need your support" and then included the names of four charities to which she donated AND included the links in case you felt like doing likewise. BUT...the foolish woman didn't name every single charity in the UK that helps / is run by an LGBT woman of colour...so she's now part of the problem.
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You have said a lot here, so I am going to challenge you to back up what you say.
I legitimately can't see where you'd finding the material for your anger and offense much of the time
The white Supremacy thread is many pages long so you can go through my numerous posts of Black people being abused, often on video and in print. That shouldn't take long
That's when I chime in occasionally on your other thread; to offer up the possibility that there's nothing there
and maybe you're looking too hard to spot 'white supremacy
A phrase, incidentally, that I think you use to mean anything form genuine systemic, institutional, organised whites-first ideology all the way down to casual (or even unintended) racism. If you believe it's all the same thing, that's fine. I don't.
I prefer to use the definition of White Supremancy as defined by Neely Fuller JR and Frances Cress Welsing (look them up) in the nine areas of human interaction. Namely:
1) Economics, (2) Education, (3) Entertainment, (4) Labour, (5 ) Law, (6) Politics, (7) Religion, (8) Sex and (9) War
Neely Fuller said, "If you do not know the system of White Supremacy and what it means, everything you think you know will only confuse you".
But here's the thing: you seem to have decided that you can't be wrong about these things, ever
"If someone disagrees with you, they're playing a dumb trick, they're part of the problem, or they just don't 'get it'"
So, once again, I tried to engage on this topic with you, and once again got shut down. So, okay, you win. Everyone's a racist.
I think my favourite trump card of yours ever was along the lines of "every member of my family has experienced racism every day of their lives, so don't you tell me that...." or something very close to that. I mean, how can you even begin to argue with that?
You speak of a central, consistent theme. And I agree completely. Hell, you've opened a storefront called The White Supremacy Thread and now you need merchandise to stock it. So, you see it everywhere now. It's a bit bonkers, frankly. But yes, I'm white and you're black so of course I'd say that and what do I know, etc etc. I know the drill.
Even the woman who wrote an entire article for the guardian saying "hey, don't just look at the pretty white women....look at marginalized women of colour who need your support" and then included the names of four charities to which she donated AND included the links in case you felt like doing likewise. BUT...the foolish woman didn't name every single charity in the UK that helps / is run by an LGBT woman of colour...so she's now part of the problem
And for the record, I do not seek to shut anyone down who disagrees with me, especially WOM. After all, knowing he is there, primed and ready to drive a coach and horses though any chink in my logic keeps me honest.
Also, take note that I have quoted word for word what you have said and what I disagreed with. I would hope you do the same in your reply rather than putting words into my mouth.
Oh, and I must warn you WOM, I have some new mechandise I plan to put up in my storefront in the next couple of days, I would appreciate if you stop by for a browse........
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No thanks.
I just spent the better part of my lunch reading all 17 pages looking for the "every member of my family" quote, which (sadly) I was unable to find.
What it did do, though, was refresh my memory about how you talk to people who disagree with you on anything of a racial nature. You're brutal. You won't agree with that assessment, and you'll ask for examples, but nah. This is your deal, and that's fine. You look for racism lurking around every corner and ...surprise...you find it. Sometimes dead to rights; other times very tenuously. The Nipsey Hussle exchange was a great example. I asked you what was so strange and you retreated to "dunno mate...just asking the questions".
I do apologize for a couple of broad strokes comments I made in my post. Using 'ever / never / always' is poor form. And I know that racism is endemic, and exists in a million places that I just (as a white male) don't see.
So out of respect, I'll avoid your threads and keep my questions / comments to myself. I know you're not asking for that, but it's the least I can do.
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Originally posted by WOM View PostNo thanks.
I just spent the better part of my lunch reading all 17 pages looking for the "every member of my family" quote, which (sadly) I was unable to find.
What it did do, though, was refresh my memory about how you talk to people who disagree with you on anything of a racial nature. You're brutal.
Taking apart someones post line by line with full quotes is only brutal when they are being dishonest and disingenuous, otherwise it is an exchange of opinion.
You won't agree with that assessment, and you'll ask for examples, but nah. This is your deal, and that's fine.
You look for racism lurking around every corner and ...surprise...you find it. Sometimes dead to rights; other times very tenuously.
The Nipsey Hussle exchange was a great example. I asked you what was so strange and you retreated to "dunno mate...just asking the questions".
I do apologize for a couple of broad strokes comments I made in my post. Using 'ever / never / always' is poor form. And I know that racism is endemic, and exists in a million places that I just (as a white male) don't see.You look for racism lurking around every corner and ...surprise...you find it. Sometimes dead to rights; other times very tenuously.So out of respect, I'll avoid your threads and keep my questions / comments to myself. I know you're not asking for that, but it's the least I can do.
Last edited by Tactical Genius; 18-06-2019, 18:43.
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