Religion at work

[Heliotrope]

Religion at work

Liberation theology.

[Reed John]

Religion at work

Yes, where I'm from, the dominant religious types are religious left and religious middle. However, the religious right generally doesn't acknowledge these people as religious at all and they don't often assert their religion in public policy discussions, so they're often overlooked.

http://www.tialliance.org/index.php

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer

http://www.publictheologian.com/

etc.

[G-Man]

Religion at work

That sensitive film student presumably boycotts all Good Friday celebrations. And the Old Testament.

[Paul S]

Religion at work

Going back to the original story, if someone is sacked for refusing to carry out thei job they believe is contrary to their beliefs then fine. But this would also apply to people who refuse to work with that BNP bloke in the London Assembly (for example). If it is wrong to opt out on religious beliefs then it is also wrong to refuse to work on the basis of moral beliefs or personal preference.

If on the other hand you acknowledge peoples religious beliefs and allow them an opt out, then you can opt out of work you dis-agree with politically.

It's a whole can of worms.

[Guest]

Religion at work

Im probably being daft here but I have never understood this whole it-offends-me-because-of-my-religion thing, esp in regards to violent films, etc. I mean, what? It makes less sense than almost anything else.

Re the registrar, it may be their job and tough on them if they dont like it, but you do want a registrar who is sympathetic and kind and on your side, I reckon, they are quite important in your day I would think, so its fair enough to not want one that disapproves of you.

[G-Man]

Religion at work

There is no obligation on anyone to work with the Nazi, Paul. One is obliged to grant him those rights he is entitled to as an elected official. But if one wants to legislate, one does not have to consult him. He can spout forth his rancid thoughts in the appropriate forums. Nobody is obligated to listen to him in those forums though. He can be safely ostracised, except in those instances where he is entitled not to be ostracised.

All that is quite different to a civil servant refusing to comply with a perfectly legal request. The magistrate's story is more like a building inspector refusing to give building permission for a butchery because he is a vegetarian.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Religion at work

As far as the Nazi is concerned - well, he's a Nazi. How exactly one deals with him is a tactical question, of course. But there's no need to afford him any niceties.

[Ginger Yellow]

Religion at work

FIGS, that sounds like an obvious flunk to me.How can you possibly expect to pass a film course if you don't even watch the films?

[Gerontophile]

Religion at work

Lyra wrote:

Re the registrar, it may be their job and tough on them if they dont like it, but you do want a registrar who is sympathetic and kind and on your side, I reckon, they are quite important in your day I would think, so its fair enough to not want one that disapproves of you.

Thanks Lyra. That is exactly what I meant... I didnt want to get started on the possible bigotry of this person... (I thought it was a she?)

I didnt want to start a Vietnam earlier, because I actually think this is a very important story. 'From small mounds build ye temples' etc.

But, now that I think about it, the person (King Mob, thank you) upthread nailed it, albeit esoterically (me, not him/her): if I were to become betrothed and all that, and I knew that this person worked in the area, I would insist on him/her being there... after all, I/we have just paid £500 (yes, and that was when it started... I would be surprised if it isnt paying for the NHS by now), I would want a shit-stirring, interfering, pious, stupid, closed-small-minded, bigoted, fucking arsehole there. (Well, my parents are dead, and I am running out of siblings)

At least, we get the fights out of the way first, and that little darling gets the verbal volley of distain that he (is it a man?) that he so richly deserves, and we can all bugger off for the Bolly and vol-au-vents

[Duncan Gardner]

Religion at work

Andy and Wyatt: I'm not agonising either. If, in practice, the woman can't do her job, she should move to another. While I've no sympathy for her point of view, if it only affects her job in passing there may not be a serious problem in getting the work done. As for special pleading, point taken, but I think her lawyer* may try to persuade the tribunal that the religion-based case is stronger than it would be were she refusing to marry black people for racist reasons.

Putting the first point slightly differently, should we sack from jobs everyone who dislikes whites/ Fenians/ Kosovars? Probably not, provided they can keep their views off the shopfloor.

FIGS and Ginger: two separate issues there surely? If the film student cuts the Godfather seminar and fails, despite your reasoned advice, perhaps he should choose a different course; but if he intimidates other students on campus, you can reasonably discipline and ultimately expel him.

Paul, PT and TT: I assumed Paul meant officials who would have to work with the BNP guy. I imagine they, or UNISON would argue that, since he stood for election on an open race-hatred ticket, they can't reasonably be expected to work with him. His association with crime overrides his need for me to do his secretariat. At some point tactics against him may include acquaintance of his head with the pavement.

* it does tend to be lawyer v lawyer at employment tribunals nowadays. Which suggest they may be rehashed- the original idea was to distinguish them from the courts, to be closer in spirit to workplace dispute resolution. What do any passing hacks think?

[Gerontophile]

Religion at work

thinking about this... and perhaps TonTon, you know about this... there is a question which I had to answer (1986) to see whether or not you could work on the London gay switchboard: If someone has a room for rent (before the interweb) and he/she wished to advertise with us, but insisted that there were no straights allowed to rent it, would you accept his advert?

[Gerontophile]

Religion at work

and then, before the Matthew McConnaughey film, now think of the person advertising as white...

[Ginger Yellow]

Religion at work

DG, that's probably the right way to do it practically, but in principle I think it merits a fail in itself. Like Reed says, it's the antithesis of what education is about. If the student doesn't understand that, even after FIGS has explained why they should watch the films, they don't deserve to pass.

[ursus arctos]

Religion at work

My understanding of FIGS situation was that the student didn't object to ALL of the films, but only to a signficant number of them, and that FIGS explained that he was therefore severely limiting himself if terms of possible paper topics, exam answers, etc., and would not be granted any special accomodation due to his "sensitivities".

That seems to me to be the exact right answer in such a case.

[Felicity, I guess so]

Religion at work

Certainly in "today's HE market" as our managers put it, we don't/can't fail someone for not turning up, and because he saw enough films that met his criteria of acceptability, he got his two assignments in and passed them.

In terms of his proselytising and/or hassling the overseas students, I quietly went around his module tutors and asked them to keep an eye out, but didn't get any evidence to take it further.

His no-show on the Screenwriting sessions was the subject of a formal complaint by other students, who were offended at his arrogance (that he should judge the content of their scripts just by looking at the writer!). It might come out at the module board, but I bet it's been quietly swept under the carpet by the relevant cttee...

[Gerontophile]

Religion at work

How does the course work FIGS? You get to choose whatever you fancy to discourse on/about, and you also get to ignore certain stuff? (shit, I just looked and you are in the UK!)

So, basically, if he writes a dissertation on whatever, and its enough, then its enough?

Shite, when I was at college, I didnt want to miss any lectures for fear of missing something important, or better, unimportant.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Religion at work

ger - I'd have no problem at all with taking the first ad, and it wouldn't cross my mind for a moment to take the second.

[Gerontophile]

Religion at work

well, in those days, you wouldnt have got the gig.

Whilst they understood about certain situations, they would absolutely not allow any racism/sexism/any bastard ism* to the point where they were going up their own arse.

But that is all relative to the time. I got disallowed because I agree with you: yes, take the advert, specific circumstances, black gay people have a REALLY shit time. But no, I got kicked for being racist (yes, I know), as everyone is equal, and no-one is more equal than another.

communism at its best? I dont know. They lost a decent person (and me too).

*I actually said that yes, if its not a gay flat, why would they call the Switchboard in the first place?

[Reed John]

Religion at work

Any film student - certainly any studying in an English language univeristy - who hasn't seen The Godfather isn't much of a film student.