Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

[Duncan Gardner]

A spin off from the discussion in the 'Football' thread...

MKBG wrote:

DG, the irish newspaper industry is tilted towards the unionists in that it's anti republican. granting news ink to deranged lunatics like ruth dudley edwards kind of gives the impression that it tilts a bit towards unionism

Can we start by agreeing terms? By "anti-republican" do you just mean critical of Sinn Fein? If so, surely that movement includes both KBG and ABB on the thread. Remember, both of you are obviously scared shitless that they might get a junior minister for Gaeltacht/ fisheries or whatever, in a future coalition government.

Or are you going further, to suggest that your newspapers' op-ed columnists want to replace the state's republican institutions with monarchical/ unionist ones? You know, returning to the pre-1921 border, making the Queen head of state or whatever?
As I explained above, unionists tend not to read RDE in the Dublin papers (or any of their other columnists). And her eccentricities (support for the Orange Order etc.) are hardly representative of the papers' editorials, are they?

That initial ethos wouldn't have changed very much as rugby expanded throughout the country

Maybe not that much- support for a particular sport and its teams may well change less over 70 years than many other aspects of society. But (largely due to advanced age, alas), I'm able to detail my impression of their ethos in 1983. So as I said, middle-class and conservative. But such things- or specifically support for trade links or currency parity with Britain- aren't anti-republican. The friends I went to games with weren't anti-republican, whether they supported FF (as many did), FG, the far left or nobody.

I wouldn't say people want to rejoin the commonwealth, but they [don't] see too much wrong being involved in a team called the Lions

I don't see much wrong with it myself, you know. It's just a brand name nowadays, no more evocative of a warlike past than the Soliders' Song or political parties named for the armies of the Gael. Even half-hearted attempts to wind up by Nelson McCausland*- he insists on calling them the British Lions- are generally ignored or ridiculed.

* flat-Earther 'Sports minister' in the Stormont pretendy parliament- and played RU for Cambridge University, if Wyatt's reading...

Yeah, it's difficult to express how jarring pro-unionist articles are on even my ears, and I want to build a wall from bettystown to sligo. we know that the provo's are cunts, but the offensive stupidity and unpleasantness of unionism really isn't my cup of tea

Look, why don't we stay on either side of the dyke in what E10 Rifle calls 'agreeable disagreement'? There are many things about the South, its institutions etc. that I find unpleasant- but no-one forced me to live there, read its media etc.

BTW, there's a almost mirror image of ABB's claim amongst many unionists. For example when they claim a BBC bias because it gives as much coverage to the South's World Cup qualifiers next week, as to a routine NI friendly. For once Munchkin's repeated point about paranoia applies, although it cuts both ways.

ABB wrote:

You should buy a few newspapers down here the next time something big happens in the North and read the coverage. I'm not making this stuff up for the crack

No, you're exaggerating it, maybe unconsciously more than wilfully because of an inbuilt bias?

Instead of hypothesising about the future- in which, hopefully there'll be fewer spectaculars, what with the 'war' being over and all- why don't you tell us what happened after one in the recent past? The Atletico IRA killings at the Antrim army base, say, but chose your own example?

The political "coverage" in the Sindo, for example, has been placed in the hands of Jody Corcoran, Brendan O'Connor, Ruth Dudley Edwards, Eilis O'Hanlon, Alan Ruddock, John Drennan and Jim Cusack. Every single one of them is massively anti-nationalist (O'Hanlon's late sister was Gerry Adams' personal assistant -- she didn't go to the funeral), and the majority of them kiss plenty of unionist arse as well. Ruddock is the only one who can string a plausible sentence together

Lots of hacks in a newspaper more interested in celebs' charlie consumption don't like a paramilitary party. That doesn't make (most of) them unionists- I know one or two are open about their support for the DUP etc. I think you mentioned Jim Cusack the last time we discussed this, but one or two rogue journalists' copy- even their whole careers- doesn't support your conclusion in the thread title , does it?

[Slim Dedalus]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

While it is true that the southern unionist community is well represented in the print media trade, it is unfair to accuse them of displaying an overtly pro union bias in their reports.

Broadly speaking, many of those who work in the dissemination of historical or political information in the south are often accused of being pro British or unionists. This is simply because a detailed and objective analysis of Ireland's circumstances cannot fail to put us in this context.

In terms of popular culture, the veneration of premiership football teams and the popularity of uk soaps and reality tv shows would suggest that a broad base of our society feel a deep rooted empathy with that of the uk. However much they declare their resolute 'non-Britishness'.

We are becoming (thankfully) less of a walking contradiction of the identity we express. A more mature understanding of our past and future is reducing those who stress separate identities with farcical consistency to token gestures.

[Duncan Gardner]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

Welcome Slim. Regards to that fearful Jesuit, Buck Mulligan.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

Yeah welcome.

DG, thanks for starting this anew on world. I was getting embarrassed by this running alongside me moaning about too many world cup matches on terrestrial TV.

[Guest]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

No, you're exaggerating it, maybe unconsciously more than wilfully because of an inbuilt bias?

No. I live here and have worked in the industry for almost 15 years. I happen to know what I'm talking about.

Lots of hacks in a newspaper more interested in celebs' charlie consumption don't like a paramilitary party.

Please stop twisting my words. I said they were anti-nationalism and republicanism, not "anti-Sinn Fein".

I'm a fool for replying to this stuff at all.

[Duncan Gardner]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

I live here and have worked in the industry for almost 15 years. I happen to know what I'm talking about

You aren't offering any evidence for an extravagant claim. Let me repeat: there are hardly any Ulster unionists in the South; very few Ulster unionists in Northern Ireland read Dublin papers, preferring their own or those from London; it would make no sense financially or politically for the Dublin press to pander to those unionists. Much of what you are criticising in those papers may well be justified- I'd probably agree with a lot of it- but it doesn't make them pro-unionist. Unless their editorial line is basically to end Sinn Fein's guaranteed leading role in the NI administration, control over devolved policing and the like. Which I'm pretty sure it isn't.

Please stop twisting my words. I said they were anti-nationalism and republicanism, not "anti-Sinn Fein"

I didn't- and don't need to, they're distorted enough as it is. In the opening post on this thread I asked KBG (and you, by association) to explain what you mean by anti-republican. Anyway, it should be clear that Southern press commentators criticising nationalist institutions or attitudes doesn't necessarily make them unionist. It isn't a zero sum game, like. Or as we say up here, themmuns don't always get everything.

I'm a fool for replying to this stuff at all

Probably better to ponder why you raised it in the first place. It's not as if this forum is short of ill-informed caricatures.

PS and less of the rank-pulling, please. The rest of us may not get to chew the fat with all the hacks you mentioned in Harcourt Street's pubs- but we can read their copy easily enough.

[Guest]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

Duncan Gardner wrote:

less of the rank-pulling, please. The rest of us may not get to chew the fat with all the hacks you mentioned in Harcourt Street's pubs- but we can read their copy easily enough.

But that's because you need to get out more when you get to Ireland!
And it's not as if there hasn't been plenty of, er, 'fat chewed'!
But you don't read those papers, even when I suggest articles to you.

And presuming that you feel these papers can be queried as they don't take an uber-Unionist stance, thus you don't deem them as wholly 'pro'.

[Duncan Gardner]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

Munchkin wrote:

But you don't read those papers, even when I suggest articles to you

I read the Irish Times and Irish Indo occasionally. I'm old enough to remember the Irish Press (Fianna Fail paper which closed some years ago).

Don't misunderstand me- I wouldn't mind if the Dublin papers were more pro-unionist, unless I was a shareholder as suggested above. Pandering to a readership of negligible number in your country makes no sense. It would be comparable to the papers taking a partisan line on internal politics in Westminster or Brussels to the exclusion of your own domestic issues.

[AMMS]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

I've got to say I was very surprised at AB's claim about the Irish press on the other thread too. I've only spent just over 3 years of my life on that island but I never picked up the impression from the Dublin based press that they were pro-Unionist in that time, maybe they've changed in the last 10 years. Certainly compared to the Irish News the were less virulently anti-unionist but that didn't make them pro. I remember in Angela's Ashes someone referring to Guinness and the Irish Times as 'Protestant' but I never noticed either of them being demonstrating that when I was there.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

I think what's happening here is different definitions of unionist. When AB says that the papers are pro-unionist, he doesn't mean that they're like the protestant telegraph, or even the belfast telegraph.

It basically means that whenever there is a dispute or a breakdown in the northern political process, they always put the blame on IRA criminality and Sinn Fein rather than unionist intransigence.

If you were to only read the sunday independent, you think that the mafia were in a powersharing arrangement with the liberal democrats. As though 80% of the problem wasn't down to cast iron cunts like jeffrey donaldson.

These articles are framed within a partitionist framework as well. It's not that we should rejoin the union, but that within the context of northern ireland, not only is unionism a sane philosophy, but also it is a much wronged one.

These newspapers are pitching these articles to people who might like the idea of a united ireland, but have no interest in taking on the mess that is northern Ireland. They want the nonsense to stop, and for politicians to grow up and just have normal politics. They don't really know the intricacies of each issue, just that someone is to blame for the fuss. They do know that they don't like sinn fein, and they buy the "this isn't the unionists fault at all, actually they're quite decent for nordies" line. There are a lot of these people.

I also think it worth pointing out that the owner of independent newspapers went so far as getting himself an honorary knighthood, so you can see whose lead they're following.

[Duncan Gardner]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

The Mighty Kubelgog!!! wrote:

It basically means that whenever there is a dispute or a breakdown in the northern political process, they always put the blame on IRA criminality and Sinn Fein rather than unionist intransigence

We must be getting different editions. All the time I've been reading about the issue they've blamed both.

As though 80% of the problem wasn't down to cast iron cunts like jeffrey donaldson

Hoever cuntish JD is, he's not the South's problem. So not really an issue for your press. Unlike the future coalition partners at Sinn Fein.

These articles are framed within a partitionist framework as well

Fancy that. We've only had it for 90 years, amazing there's a framework around it already.

It's not that we should rejoin the union, but that within the context of northern ireland, not only is unionism a sane philosophy, but also it is a much wronged one

Acknowedging that your neighbors' broad political philosophy might be sane doesn't mean you necessarily agree with it.

They do know that they don't like sinn fein, and they buy the "this isn't the unionists fault at all, actually they're quite decent for nordies" line. There are a lot of these people

This is an increasingly deranged fantasy, KBG. Pretty much nobody in your country- within the press or otherwise- thinks the unionists are blameless in the horsetrading of NI politics. Nor in any other country, come to that.

I also think it worth pointing out that the owner of independent newspapers went so far as getting himself an honorary knighthood, so you can see whose lead they're following

Ha ha. Look, we'll offer ye a deal. Take the mad conspiracies elsewhere and we can offer Sir Analog Bubblewrap Bt., Lord Banjolele of Upper Culchesia and Baron Munchkin by Proxy.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

We must be getting different editions. All the time I've been reading about the issue they've blamed both.

Not really. If you were to read the sunday independent, you would think that the problems in the north were due to sinn fein being untrustworthy, rather than unionism inexorably trying to destroy anyone who talks to sinn fein. I'm just waiting for Jim allister to call ian paisley a lundy.

Hoever cuntish JD is, he's not the South's problem. So not really an issue for your press. Unlike the future coalition partners at Sinn Fein.

But JD and his ilk's cuntishness is the north's problem, and we're being told that it's sinn fein's fault, and that jd is being reasonable. Now I've met the man, and I know a bit about his background, and I can understand why he thinks the way he does. Unfortunately He won't accept anything less than full surrender from sinn fein, i.e. not just ending the IRA, but Sinn fein are going to have to come out and say that they were entirely in the wrong.

I can understand why he doesn't like sinn fein, but you can't gloss over the fact that the problem that powersharing is having is that they just don't want to share power with catholics. He recently said that Catholics owe their first allegiance to the pope and the vatican. That is completely insane and thinking straight out of the 1700's.

Fancy that. We've only had it for 90 years, amazing there's a framework around it already.

That just means that these articles are pro-unionist within the context of Northern Ireland. They're not aimed at the small number of unionists in the republic, or the unionists in northern Ireland. They're saying to irish people, that within the context of northern Ireland, unionists are the good guys, or not the bad guys anyway.

Acknowedging that your neighbors' broad political philosophy might be sane doesn't mean you necessarily agree with it.

Any political philosophy that makes such a big deal out of a bunch of irish people wanting to be ruled by the windsors of all people is insane when you think about it. It's like Irish americans wanting to be ruled from dublin. But I'm referring more to the crazed "You're a lundy for even being in the same building as sinn fein" dynamic of unionism which is totally batshit insane and really destructive. Basically if you're painting jeffrey donaldson's objections as being sane, then you're pretty pro-unionist.

This is an increasingly deranged fantasy, KBG. Pretty much nobody in your country- within the press or otherwise- thinks the unionists are blameless in the horsetrading of NI politics. Nor in any other country, come to that.

You have to bear in mind that it doesn't matter what they actually think about unionist blame. What they do is attack sinn fein, and if they have to talk up the unionists fears of sinn fein IRA to do that, they will.

Ha ha. Look, we'll offer ye a deal. Take the mad conspiracies elsewhere and we can offer Sir Analog Bubblewrap Bt., Lord Banjolele of Upper Culchesia and Baron Munchkin by Proxy.

hold on. The Sunday independent is tony o'reilly's mouthpiece. He uses it as a political tool. He dictates the editorial line. He's a big fan of the english establishment and He was lobbying for a knighthood for years, and eventually blair gave him one.

Basically every step by people like albert reynolds and john hume to bring the IRA in from the cold and to move them towards disbanding was attacked every inch of the way by the independent group. Hume in particular was savaged by the Sunday independent, as enthusiastically as if it was the print wing of the DUP.

[Guest]

Are 85% of Dublin's newspapers pro-unionist?

To be fair you both have a point, but certainly most of the Irish people I know would have more balls than using their daily paper as the criteria as how to vote or what to believe.

But accepting plenty do, the main worry is the increasing pre-eminence of more Brit tabloids affecting Irish readership which can only be a bad thing....