Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

All Gone Quiet Over Here

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #26
    All Gone Quiet Over Here

    I just finished putting a coat of paint on the ceiling of the bedroom I'm putting in for my in-laws. Now I'm drinking tea and watching Gordon Ramsay abuse American restauranteurs.

    And no, you don't suck at all.

    Comment


      #27
      All Gone Quiet Over Here

      I don;t think I did imply that, ad hoc. I certainly did not make a comparison of the *number* of deaths for which each side was responsible (though, for what it's worth, Thomas puts the figures for murders and executions behind the front lines at 75,000 for the nationalists and 55,000 for the republicans *during* the war - after the war, the nationalists are thought to have executed perhaps another 100,000. However, a quick wiki search shows that you can easily find another half-dozen or so sources which will double or halve each of these numbers). From a second quick wiki search, it seems the accepted number for the number of clergy killed is a little under 7000, most of them in the first few weeks of the war. And Thomas is actually quite graphic in his details about Republican slaughters (as he is about nationalist ones) - chapter 16 is almost entierly given over to descriptions of sadism and executions on both sides in July and August 1936.

      What I was saying is that the Nationalists were under tighter cental command for more of the war; because the republican side were of necessity a bunch of popular militias, there was a lot of freelancing going on (Thomas often uses the term "anarchist militia"...personally, I think thè practical distinction between an anarchist militia in the first few days after its formation was probably as close to a "mob" as makes almost no odds). Therefore, though the Republican side may have done quite it fair share of killing, the republican government itself did not. The same was not true on the other side, where greater central control was exerted.

      's all I'm saying.

      Comment


        #28
        All Gone Quiet Over Here

        Yes, the new forum does seem to be lacking something... threads that would have attracted pages of responses on the old forum seem to fade away after half a dozen posts. And it is always the same old incestuous little clique of people talking to each other.... but maybe the old forum was already going that way, anyway...

        There definitely seems to be less Aussie posters on the new forum- if even a tabloidy political sex scandal can't lure them into posting. I hadn't seen that Buswell story before, and I live in Oz. Who is he, someone important...?

        Comment


          #29
          All Gone Quiet Over Here

          personally, I think thè practical distinction between an anarchist militia in the first few days after its formation was probably as close to a "mob" as makes almost no odds).
          I think you're way off there. He's not talking about a militia behaving anarchically, he's talking about a militia which has anarchism as its bonding political ideology. Which is very different.

          Therefore, though the Republican side may have done quite it fair share of killing, the republican government itself did not. The same was not true on the other side, where greater central control was exerted.

          OK, this I think is probably fair. Apologies for misreading you.

          Comment


            #30
            All Gone Quiet Over Here

            I think you're way off there. He's not talking about a militia behaving anarchically, he's talking about a militia which has anarchism as its bonding political ideology. Which is very different.
            Well, I'm slightly playing on the anarchic root, but think about what it must have been like in July '36. You have a military pronunciamento against a legally elected government. In many parts of the country, the pronunciamento is opposed by the people flooding into the streets. If they had arms, the had them because they had been handed over by (or looted from) the civil guard. They had no military training. Some leadership came from the unions (some of which were anarchist), but the union leadership certainly did not control their men as a military unit would. Basically, you had a lot of newly-armed men who were pissed off and roaming the streets.

            In many places where these groups were successful in putting down the nationalist rebellion, these armed groups then decided to "make revolution", which among other things meant rounding up and shooting a lot of priests, bankers and factory owners. There wasn't a lot of what one would call justice here - no trials or anything like that (the same thing was of course happening to labour leaders on the other side of the line, but under military orders - though I think BAN is right that what happened in areas where the Carlist Falange was probably pretty close to what was going on in the republican areas).

            Yes, later they turned themselves into actual military fighting units (although a read of Orwell and Heminway suggests these units weren't models of military discipline), more or less under ultimate civilian control. But in those first few days, whatever their ideology, the spontaneous nature of the counter-uprising would - to my mind, anyway - made it more or less indistinguishable from a mob.

            Comment


              #31
              All Gone Quiet Over Here

              Breaking news: Had the Republicans won, Cliff Richard might have not have been robbed of the Eurovision Song Contest title in 1968.

              Comment


                #32
                All Gone Quiet Over Here

                WOM - I'm around 2 nights a week when doing my night shifts. Indeed I posted this thread in the middle of a night shift.

                Off work today, so as usual I'm working harder than when I'm being paid. Just painted the outside of the house round the back this morning. And done two loads of laundry too.

                fortunately the paint and the clothes have kept their distance from each other.

                3 hours to do housework and then my first game of cricket in about 12 years this evening! scared.

                Comment


                  #33
                  All Gone Quiet Over Here

                  I think I've given up cricket. I need to take the final step and get rid of my old kit. The way I see it I'm not very good at it, and as a crap batsman I can be in an out in the space of 5 mins. Then it's several hours in the field.

                  I guess it's just not that much fun.

                  Likewise with golf. I can spend 4.5 hours being frustrated, not getting anywhere. I think I need to clean the clubs up and whack them on eBay.

                  Comment


                    #34
                    All Gone Quiet Over Here

                    There's a large climbdown from this:
                    The Republicans, on the other hand, were frequently little better thn a mob

                    to this:
                    But in those first few days,[...] made it more or less indistinguishable from a mob.

                    I think now you're significantly closer to what I undestand things were like.

                    Comment


                      #35
                      All Gone Quiet Over Here

                      um...fair enough. But it is actually what I'd meant initially (badly phrased, obviously).

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X